Contemporary Russian counterstamp

[akdrv]

 

[freak]

there are some good counterfiets

[one-kuna]

task to find its makers for russian secret service

[Art1.2]

Interesting -- what does the counterstamp say/mean?

[marv]

It says "Putin thief" Not too subtle.

[Art1.2]

Thanks for the info. So I'm guessing there will be a number of these circulating. Probably become a nice collectible.

[marv]

Coins were originally used as hosts for political messages, where the city or the ruler could boast of their accomplishments. The fact that coins were used as a medium of exchange only enhanced their attraction as political statements to the powers that be. So in that respect, a political message on a coin is nothing new. However, governments these days frown on someone else's political message on government coins. In the US, defacing or mutilating coins or paper money is a crime, and I imagine that it's a (more) serious crime in the RF especially when the message is against someone like Putin. I would guess that collecting these in the RF would be a bit dangerous for the collector.

[freak]

Thats a good point

[Candidate]

I imagine that it's a (more) serious crime in the RF especially when the message is against someone like Putin. I would guess that collecting these in the RF would be a bit dangerous for the collector.

In Russia "defacing or mutilating coins" is not a crime by itself.

I don't even think that this counterstamp is preventing a coin from being a legal tender (I am not a specialist, though Central Bank of Russia has certain rules for it and I don't think that this coin does not comply).

 

But this kind of counterstamp may formally be a reason to lay charges of difamation (art. 128 and 129 of Criminal Law of Russian Federation) to a person who made such a counterstamp/

 

And if you are not the person who made this counterstamp and distrbuted such coins (thus publicly accusing Putin as being a criminal) it is certainly not "dangerous" for a collector to acquire or keep this coin as a part of collection.

[Scottishmoney]

A risky move, think of the band that got arrested and sentenced to prison.

[Candidate]

I believe that breaking laws and improper, antisocial behaviour is "a risky move" always and everywhere.

[marv]

I am surprised to hear that defacing or mutilating money is not a crime in the Russian Federation. I just assumed that most countries had rules against that since the US does. I would venture to guess that the logic behind the criminalization of mutilation is the difficulty it then causes for people to judge whether the money is counterfeit or not and would render the coin unfit for its intended use as legal tender. I'm no legal expert however.

[EugeneG]

Nice one. I only saw political messages on banknotes.

[marv]

In Russia "defacing or mutilating coins" is not a crime by itself.

I don't even think that this counterstamp is preventing a coin from being a legal tender (I am not a specialist, though Central Bank of Russia has certain rules for it and I don't think that this coin does not comply).

 

But this kind of counterstamp may formally be a reason to lay charges of difamation (art. 128 and 129 of Criminal Law of Russian Federation) to a person who made such a counterstamp/

 

And if you are not the person who made this counterstamp and distrbuted such coins (thus publicly accusing Putin as being a criminal) it is certainly not "dangerous" for a collector to acquire or keep this coin as a part of collection.

I understand that you're saying that if one doesn't pass the coin along, i.e., use it to buy something (distribute it as you say), then you're not guilty under Russian law. So a collector who merely holds it in a collection is not a criminal. But don't you, as a Russian citizen, have a duty to report this (an illegal activity) to the police and turn over the coin as evidence? And if you don't do that because you want to keep the coin in your collection, aren't you possibly guilty of a crime?

 

In the US, we're supposed to report any counterfeit money to the US Secret Service who will most likely confiscate it as evidence. I'm not sure about mutilated money.

[Scottishmoney]

But ask yourself, what is morally and or socially acceptable form of protest? In west there are many reports of anti-Putin movements, similarly I can find reports about anti-USA government protests in Russian media.

[marv]

But ask yourself, what is morally and or socially acceptable form of protest? In west there are many reports of anti-Putin movements, similarly I can find reports about anti-USA government protests in Russian media.

In the US, the media report most types of protests including anti-(US) government, anti-anything. One can run out in the street or stand in front of the White House and yell nasty things about Obama without getting arrested. They will only risk arrest if they threaten to harm the President physically, but other than that, one can say just about anything about the government or the President (including calling him a thief) and not risk arrest. It's called freedom of speech. I wonder what happens in Russia if one repeats the slogan on the coin in public, shouts it out in the street? Will the Russian media publish that?

[Scottishmoney]

In the US, the media report most types of protests including anti-(US) government, anti-anything. One can run out in the street or stand in front of the White House and yell nasty things about Obama without getting arrested. They will only risk arrest if they threaten to harm the President physically, but other than that, one can say just about anything about the government or the President (including calling him a thief) and not risk arrest. It's called freedom of speech. I wonder what happens in Russia if one repeats the slogan on the coin in public, shouts it out in the street? Will the Russian media publish that?

 

Indeed there is a difference - but I read media from both countries and they both do a lot of bashing of others. In Russian media I can read all about Obama's woes, Russians getting killed in USA, all about social problems, disasters etc. In American media I can read all about Putin, Americans being harassed in Russia for being gay etc.

 

There was old Soviet era joke where an American and Russian were discussing their freedoms. The American said he can go in front of the Whitehouse and denounce the American president. To which the Russian replies "I too can go in front of the Kremlin and denounce the American president".

[marv]

That's great. Reminds me of the joke about the two main Soviet papers, Izvestia (The News) and Pravda (The Truth). In my Russian class I learned: In "The News" there is no news, and in "The Truth" there is no truth (in Russian of course).

[Candidate]

That's great. Reminds me of the joke about the two main Soviet papers, Izvestia (The News) and Pravda (The Truth). In my Russian class I learned: In "The News" there is no news, and in "The Truth" there is no truth (in Russian of course).

It actually was: "There is no news in The Truth and no truth in The News"

(in Russian it sounded as: "В "Известиях" нет правды, а в "Правде" нет известий").

[freak]

this was a very interesting read

[marv]

It actually was: "There is no news in The Truth and no truth in The News"

(in Russian it sounded as: "В "Известиях" нет правды, а в "Правде" нет известий").

Yes thanks. I had forgotten. I thought it pretty funny at the time (my Russian classes were almost 50 years ago)!