constanius Posted July 24, 2013 Report Share Posted July 24, 2013 Thomas Kettle in 1814 issued a small medal which was to become a classic, one which every collector of Napoleonic or Kettle pieces wants to have in their collection. So even though the brass & copper versions are listed as N. for normal rarity, with only the silvered listed as RR. for very rare, they are much in demand & therefore command a premium, especially ones in good condition. That said I have been after one for a long time, well I finally have one..........Your challenge, if you so desire, is to try is to pick the one I purchased from the following 12 pictured using the column letter A,B or C & the row # 1,2,3 or 4 and give a reason why you picked that one. Here, as an enticement to give it a go, is where Thomas' inspiration for the medal came from(courtesy of the Bodleian Library) These, pictured below, were all the decent examples I could find on the web, including mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
constanius Posted July 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 It is just a few months shy of 200 years since these were struck and apparently the variant that I have found has never been recorded before. Hence why I thought I would post the composite picture to give others the chance to spot it from amongst the normal versions. Whilst doing some research on Henry & Thomas Kettle I discovered that they were descended from a French Huguenot family which left France after the Revocation of the Edict of Nantes(1685) the head of the family was Henri Quitel. The surname Quitel later became anglicized to Kettle. This then is a direct link to the medals I collect from the period of the French Wars of Religion(mid to late 16th C.) to my collecting the medals of the Kettles, those descendants of the Huguenot émigré Henri Quitel, produced in England 200+ years later. I also came across the metallic content of one these medals, it was # 3 in a large group that was being analyzed. 3. Kettle = Obv. Napoleon seated backwards on a ass being led by walking horned devil who pulls a halter around Napoleon's neck: INSEPERABLE.FRIENDS - in ex: TO.ELBA Rev. around top: WE.CONQUER.TO.SET.FREE field: EMP./OF.RUSSIA/K.OF.PRUSSIA/MARQUIS/WELLINGTON/PRINCE/SCHWARTZEN- /BERG bottom: MARCH.31.1814 Weight Cu Zn Sn Pb Ag Ni As Sb Fe 3. Kettle 1814 4.40 93.9 4.7 0.29 0.40 0.08 - 0.44 - 0.14 3.Silvered surface 0.39 0.46 Weights are cited in grammes. Standard chemical symbols are used for metals: Cu = copper: Z = zinc: Sn = tin: Pb = lead: Ag = silver: Ni = nickel: As = arsenic: Sb = antimony: Fe = iron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 A3 appears to be bronze. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
constanius Posted July 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2013 It sure does Bill, there is quite a variation in all the metals & their colors but there is one among the 12 that is engraved quite different to the rest of them. So sorry but please try again. Since I located all the pictures and posted them with mine 2 more have appeared on-line which are still the normal version. So I know that the variant I have must be extremely rare. I am surprised that it has not been noticed years ago, but here is the chance to spot it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccg Posted July 27, 2013 Report Share Posted July 27, 2013 The silver C3 for what appears to be a filled "S" in "Friends"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
constanius Posted July 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2013 Well spotted ccg, it is not C3 though.....the differences are much more drastic than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted July 27, 2013 Report Share Posted July 27, 2013 Well, then it is B3, different engraving. Different ass, arms on the back, devil has different legs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
constanius Posted July 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2013 Well done Bill. I have taken new pictures of it, it is silvered(RR.) & is in great condition as well as being an unlisted variant, must be RRRR. The devil's horns are longer as well. I first spotted the extra ground behind the ass' last leg & Napoleon's foot farther away from the ass' leg. Decided that whatever it was going to be mine but got it pretty cheap, not till it arrived I realized how great a condition it was in, as the seller's pictures did not do it justice. Glad that you spotted it...after I had bought though, not before. One to compare it too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedeadpoint Posted July 30, 2013 Report Share Posted July 30, 2013 Great find! I eyed that one too once you said the engraving was different. Why do you think the engraving is so drastically different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
constanius Posted July 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2013 Great find! I eyed that one too once you said the engraving was different. Why do you think the engraving is so drastically different? I am not sure if you meant; 1. Why, do you think, the engraving is so drastically different? Meaning why do I think that it is drastically different because you do not understand why I think that. Because it is not just a minor variation(like a missing stop, doubling of a letter, etc) or a reworked die, but a totally new engraved die. 2 Why do you think the engraving is so drastically different? Meaning that you agree that it is drastically different and would like to know why. Perhaps Kettle gave the satirical print to 2 engravers and asked them both to produce dies, preferred the one more commonly seen so used that but when that die became worn switched to the other die for the final few made, hence there being so few examples. I did not mention it but the reverses also have slightly spacing for the inscriptions. Or maybe, the old die needed replacing, instead of just slavishly copying it he tried something new. I guess we will never know but it is puzzles like this that keep exonumia so interesting, thanks for the question TDP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YeOldeCollector Posted July 30, 2013 Report Share Posted July 30, 2013 A truly brilliant addition to your collection, Pat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jokerman Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 I guess you know there is another medal with the same adverse, Bramsen 1447: In post-Renaissance France, society ridiculed and humiliated husbands thought to be battered and/or dominated by their wives. In France, for instance, a "battered" husband was trotted around town riding a donkey backwards while holding its tail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art1.2 Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 Interesting piece. I see he's wearing a Napoleon hat and the "To Elba". So banishing the poor battered chap as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
constanius Posted September 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 I guess you know there is another medal with the same adverse, Bramsen 1447: In post-Renaissance France, society ridiculed and humiliated husbands thought to be battered and/or dominated by their wives. In France, for instance, a "battered" husband was trotted around town riding a donkey backwards while holding its tail. Great find, one which I was not aware of, I guess that you have seen this one of mine with the same German inscription. If you ever consider selling or exchanging it, would you please let me know(PM me). Thanks. Pat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jokerman Posted September 26, 2015 Report Share Posted September 26, 2015 That one was actually new for me. Nice! I will look it up in Bramsen on Monday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jokerman Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 And the story goes on. The first medal you show, which is Bramsen 1415, is made by Thomas Kettle. Kettle also made another medal with the same reverse dies. On the adverse there is a portrait of Emperor Alexander with the legend "ALEXANDER EMP. OF ALL THE RUSSIAS". Bramsen 1371: http://www.napoleonicmedals.org/coins/bhm-797.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
constanius Posted September 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 Fauver, Alexander 1814-1fpa 25mm R-6 by Kettle. The copy/reducing lines are clearly visible, the cutter juddered going over the bust ribbon and some of the letters. The 'D' has a clear cutting line acrossed it. As is the case with these medals, that show the die still had machined marks, the piece is in great condition, being silvered-copper also makes it slightly rarer. FAUVER ALEXANDER-2a R.-6 You might find this link of interest, it is a post of mine re the Kettle family of die-sinkers http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,27159.0.html I still have a lot of pieces to add to that link. Here are 4 more of Kettle's I still have to add to that post, the top one has central machine marks on the reverse, unlisted as silvered, unsigned and has the rarer obverse, "THEY" starts just above the exegue. FAUVER PEACE 1814-3, ONLY LISTED IN COPPER R.-8(5-10 KNOWN) THIS BEING SILVERED IS EVEN RARER, MIGHT BE UNIQUE. FAUVER PEACE 1814-2a R.-6 FAUVER Peace 1814-1 R.-6, ONLY LISTED IN BRASS, THIS IS HEAVILY GILDED SO RARER THE BRASS VERSION OF PEACE 1814-1b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jokerman Posted September 30, 2015 Report Share Posted September 30, 2015 Wonderful! Very nice medals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jokerman Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 A new version: http://www.coinforums.com/world-ancient-coins/1593-napoleonic-token.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
constanius Posted October 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 Forrer does not list this version, one was offered on eBay a month or so back, unfortunately I was outbid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jokerman Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 I am afraid I soon is a collector of these medals (also). Thanks for sharing constanius. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Withers Posted January 17, 2020 Report Share Posted January 17, 2020 Kettle is perhaps best describe as a publisher rather than an engraver. However, I suspect that these medallets are more common than we think and there are more varieties to be found. Kettle seemed to have been working to supply both the British and German markets of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jawikr1966 Posted February 20 Report Share Posted February 20 I have one of these that I would be willing to sell. Not sure of the value. let me know if you are interested. jamison_krause@yahoo.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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