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Are there different 1762 Novodel / Pattern Denga coin types?


extant4cell
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May be I am asking a silly question, but looking through the past main auctions I noticed that 1761 Novodel / Partern Denga coins have different types, or perhaps there is a different explanation? It appears that some Novodels were struck with original dies and some with new "better technology" ones and some with original that were cut a bit more using new technology (perhaps). Bitkin (Биткин) lists 7 coin types (620 621 622 623 624 625 626) can anyone check why he listed 7 numbers? I don't know why he listed so many, and moreover, why so many different Novodels exists. How many official re-strikes were there, does any one has an idea? I could group them into 3 main types, but I believe there were more than one set of dies in each type that may result in sub-types possible to exist. Here are the pictures from MD ( http://www.m-dv.ru/c...906/prohod.html ) with 3 types I put up together:

 

Type I:

 

2012 -

1_4eea0e6303c63.jpg

2006 -

p_4b5eb75b6fe04.jpg

 

 

Type II:

 

2011 -

1_4e5f78028634d.jpg

2009 -

p_49fab0bf11075.jpg

 

Type III:

 

2000 -

p_4a4e04356d8c2.jpg

Please comment...

 

PS: Sorry, the year should read 1761 (not 1762) in the title...

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Novodels were made at different times. There were instances when dies were prepared specially, and then destroyed after the set was produced. Thus, the next set was produced with newly cut dies. Hence, you got all these variants. Add fakes to that, and you get a nice range... :bgreen:

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So, I guess (again) that one can not really say that this or that type is really "original Novodel", but refer to it as "one of the known Novodels dies or types" (not even confirmed by literature) ... These pattern coins give me a headache :wallbash: that requires further study by specialists. But some of these coins are just too damn good looking! :drool:

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Looks like in GM there are 3 coins, 2 are similar to one type and the other one to another, but not to type II:

  • post-10016-0-73722700-1358155139_thumb.jpg
  • post-10016-0-67060000-1358155156_thumb.jpg

So, as Type I and III are reflected in GM and purely in sphere of art are appealing. Type II is somewhat too similar to the new fake coins that are made at present. They are just not good looking enough for coins made by mint. However, it may be one of the later Novodels, but until I get a prove that they are such, I will consider that type to be a fake. If someone may be able to contradict this statement, I would be happy to hear.

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Did you read anywhere if they made one set, or a few sets of dies for every Novodel strike? One thing in defense of Type 2 is that it looks like the die for armature side of the coin for type 2 is the same as for Type 3. They possibly used the same dies for Denga side adding a full stop after the year... Mixing dies must have been a common practice.

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That was the question, yes. The reason for asking is that there are some coins of Type I with different armature side of a coin, where word Denga and the drum look very different from the GM dies. Unfortunately, the paired picture that I posted later was deleted and no longer available. But if you can compare the pictures that I posted in the first post with the GM picture, you'll see what I mean.

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Story has it: first there were original dies used for novodel production. Then, when one or both deteriorated, new dies were cut. Then all newcut dies were destroyed to stop novodel production. Then new dies were cut to produce novodel sets for industrial fair. Then they were destroyed. Then the new dies were cut... Etc.

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Any idea why 1 k 1761 is missing?

 

Coins: ..........Novodels:

___________________________

................... 1760 10 Коp

................... 1760 4 Коp

1760 2 Коp (!!)

1760 1 Коp (!!)

................... 1760 Denga

____________________________

 

................... 1761 10 Коp

................... 1761 4 Коp

................... 1761 2 Коp

................... = EMPTY =

................... 1761 Деньга

____________________________

 

1762 10 Коp

1762 4 Коp

1762 2 Коp

1762 1 Коp

1762 Denga

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