extant4cell Posted December 30, 2012 Report Share Posted December 30, 2012 Your opinion on this coin please. I compared it to two known novodels, very close, but not 100%, including the edge (I didn't see novodels with reeded edge). Unfortunately, I am not an expert in novodels, so would welcome your input. Here is the picture: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted December 30, 2012 Report Share Posted December 30, 2012 Are the scratches on the obverse actually raised out of the metal? It's hard to tell from the pictures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extant4cell Posted December 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2012 This is the only picture of the coin available. These are very strange, I'd even say "symmetrical" scratches... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art1.2 Posted December 30, 2012 Report Share Posted December 30, 2012 They appear to be raised. So I would guess they are gouges in the die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE MOULDING Posted December 30, 2012 Report Share Posted December 30, 2012 Dies (except for the obverse scratches) look very similar to MiM31 (June 2006) ex-Lot 599 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extant4cell Posted December 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2012 Steve, can you please comment on reeded edge? That what worries me the most. And these gouges in the die, as Art pointed out, also are very intriguing, with upper ones being a mirror image of the lower ones... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKB Posted December 30, 2012 Report Share Posted December 30, 2012 these are mine. Only have this photo right now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extant4cell Posted December 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2012 It the reeded edge a problem? How much would you value the coin on the picture presented? I am interested to buy it, if the coin is OK and the price is right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE MOULDING Posted December 31, 2012 Report Share Posted December 31, 2012 Tough call. Stylistically it looks fine...though it doesn't match exactly examples from sales such as Fuchs or Brand IV. However there are a number of different versions of this Novodel (and some just outright weak fakes) If it's Edge-1 (is that what you mean by reeded?) then that may not be a problem. Edge looks a little coarse. Brekke says those edges were hand cut...so maybe. I don't see the obverse scratches on other examples and that's bothersome. Overall, the feel is OK (to me) but it would have to be fairly cheap to compensate for these questions. Sales history would help. I *might* take the risk with spare money but not make a big investment. And then again I might not. My 2c Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extant4cell Posted December 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2012 Yes, that's what I meant by reeded edge (sort of chopped on a side ) ... I didn't know there were Novodel Denga's of this year with this edge around. I couldn't find reference to this type of edge. But just managed to find one: http://www.m-dv.ru/m...ges-prohod.html How much would you risk on this one? What would you find to be reasonable amount. Mind that seller sells it as Novodel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE MOULDING Posted December 31, 2012 Report Share Posted December 31, 2012 I couldn't find reference to this type of edge. What references do you have?? Edge-1 is listed in Brekke, Uzdenikov, Bitkin... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extant4cell Posted December 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2012 I ment that in relations to this coin. I have Uzdenikov 2004. New Type Denga 1796: 1) Coin 2934, Novodel, edge: rope. 2) Coin 2935, edge: reeded (ribbed). But no mentioning of Novodel (2934) with reeded edge and I could find only one going through the auctions that looks like it's edge is reeded. Uzdenikov does not speak of different edges as type 1, 2 etc. He speaks of lets say rope edge as having type 1 or 2 (depending on the angle), etc. That's why I got confused with your mentioning of the Type of Edge a bit. He does list it in his additional notes first in the list of edges, but not as a type 1... How much would you risk on this one? What would you find to be a reasonable amount? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE MOULDING Posted December 31, 2012 Report Share Posted December 31, 2012 OK, Forget words and numbers...a picture is easier What edge does it *actually* have? This ////////// or this |||||||||| Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extant4cell Posted December 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2012 Wait a minute, it may be a rope! It doesn't say in the description, I only have the pictures to go by... I see what you see... What does it look to you? My first impression was ||||||, but rope may look like this as well, when you don't see the edge.... I feel a bit of a fool now... Ok, let's make it a proper roped Novodel. What do you think it will be worth? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted December 31, 2012 Report Share Posted December 31, 2012 Wait a minute, it may be a rope! It doesn't say in the description, I only have the pictures to go by... I see what you see... What does it look to you? My first impression was ||||||, but rope may look like this as well, when you don't see the edge.... I feel a bit of a fool now... Ok, let's make it a proper roped Novodel. What do you think it will be worth? There are actually two kinds of roped edges (numbering of the edge types is standard): #1 = //////////////// #6 = \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ Regardless of which side of the coin is up, the orientation of these marks stays the same (perhaps hard to believe unless you try it). Then there is the reeded edge: #3 = ||||||||||||||| And then there is the net-like edge: #5 = xxxxxxxxxxxxxx Also, there are other kinds of edges, some of which were used only for certain types. Every Russian numismatic reference I have seen lists these edges along with illustrations, so maybe you need to buy a book? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extant4cell Posted December 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2012 Thanks, I have one. Happy New Year Everyone!!!! I am 1 hour in a new year already.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigistenz Posted December 31, 2012 Report Share Posted December 31, 2012 The official novodels were struck in small numbers with special care. Why then the 4 cuts in the die? And could there have occured weak areas of the surrounding pearls ?? Sigi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted December 31, 2012 Report Share Posted December 31, 2012 Thanks, I have one. Happy New Year Everyone!!!! I am 1 hour in a new year already.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extant4cell Posted December 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2012 The official novodels were struck in small numbers with special care. Why then the 4 cuts in the die? And could there have occured weak areas of the surrounding pearls ?? Sigi That is what strikes me... I can not understand why these scratches have appeared on the die. And they are very similar, look like from some kind of a metal clip or tongs. The party goes on! This year we had friends over and I only slept for 2 hours. Babies wake up too early for the New Year day..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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