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5kop1781С.ПМ - its secret revealed by better pictures


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rolf5kop1788spm.jpg

 

About 2 weeks ago I posted poor cellphone pictures of the coin above - a 5kop1781С.ПМ only known as a novodel. As the novodels were struck on new planchets (and did not circulate), the coin above obviously is NOT a novodel . Could there have been 1781 business strikes - hitherto unknown?

Well, I got the owner to send me the coin for inspection. See below a close up of the 81 of the date. The 1 appears to have seen much less circulation than the 8. Tooling is evident at both sides of the 1. The sharp edges of the 1 reveal that it must be more recent than the worn down 8. This means that the 1 was cut not into the die but on the coin itself = FAKE . :grin:

Sigi

 

 

 

2fweb.jpg

 

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Is it struck over a ten kopeck? It sure looks like it but I tend to stay away from overstrikes simply because my eyes are bad. I see the ten clearly but can not make out what type.

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  • 7 months later...

Here it is again - in the forthcoming Gorny&Mosch sale :(

http://www.sixbid.com/browse.html?auction=930&category=19303&lot=893181

 

7fx5.jpg

The coin belonged to the late Rolf Weinsheimer (Germany), passed away in March. His widow who doesn't know a thing about coins and who had come to hate them, commissioned the truckload (maybe more) of them as a whole to Rolf's longtime business partner. :cry:

Whom I informed. It is to be hoped that the coin will be withdrawn.

Sigi

 

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I am familiar with Rolf's coins. Visited him a few times. The prices in upcoming auction still reflect Rolf's wishes, as far as I can tell.

So hopefully no disservice is done to the widow....

Even the plugged Peter I rouble still has a high estimate. Rolf thought it as the rarest Peter I rouble and unsuccessfully tried to sell it in many different auctions (with high reserve) - Gorny, Baldwin's, Markov (through Baldwin's).

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I am familiar with Rolf's coins. Visited him a few times. The prices in upcoming auction still reflect Rolf's wishes, as far as I can tell.

So hopefully no disservice is done to the widow....

Even the plugged Peter I rouble still has a high estimate. Rolf thought it as the rarest Peter I rouble and unsuccessfully tried to sell it in many different auctions (with high reserve) - Gorny, Baldwin's, Markov (through Baldwin's).

Nobody could be familiar with Rolf's coins - including himself. He just had too many and no system. He could not find what he thought to have somewhere and when searching was surprised with what he found. The country home of his was overloaded with Russian coins, many back in the bags in which they had been received, others loose on or under or inside or between hundreds of auction catalogs, reference books or in trays or in boxes with literally no space left for his wife other than the kitchen. Last time I saw him he cleared the floor in front of his large strongbox in order to open its door. When it went open a little avalanche fell out of it.

His widow Ingrid seemed relieved to finally gain back the space beyond her kitchen.

I had known my friend Rolf for 40 years. He was kind of difficult but he was absolutely honest and his knowledge was second to none. He had just one eye left from a 1944 wartime injury but that eye was sharp!!!

Although constantly suffering pain he never lost his good humor - we laughed a lot together.

I miss him.

Sigi

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I respected Rolf for his knowledge and understanding of true rarities. I agree he had all these little envelopes, coin purses, etc. But I do remember many of his coins - can name most of them in the upcoming auction. Collector's memory works in a strange way. :) Here is one of the copper coins I purchased from Rolf on one of my visits.

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In my memory about 10-12 years ago I sold to Rolf couple duplicates from my collection Siberian coins and 1702 polupoltinnik of Peter I and purchases a lot of coins( special Peter I period) from Gorny Auction (Ralf's consignments). Very sad Rolf Weinsheimer pass away,hi was a great collector with knowledge.

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I respected Rolf for his knowledge and understanding of true rarities. I agree he had all these little envelopes, coin purses, etc. But I do remember many of his coins - can name most of them in the upcoming auction. Collector's memory works in a strange way. :) Here is one of the copper coins I purchased from Rolf on one of my visits.

Igor,

Nice coins ,missing in my collection.

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Nobody could be familiar with Rolf's coins - including himself. He just had too many and no system. He could not find what he thought to have somewhere and when searching was surprised with what he found. The country home of his was overloaded with Russian coins, many back in the bags in which they had been received, others loose on or under or inside or between hundreds of auction catalogs, reference books or in trays or in boxes with literally no space left for his wife other than the kitchen. Last time I saw him he cleared the floor in front of his large strongbox in order to open its door. When it went open a little avalanche fell out of it.

His widow Ingrid seemed relieved to finally gain back the space beyond her kitchen.

I had known my friend Rolf for 40 years. He was kind of difficult but he was absolutely honest and his knowledge was second to none. He had just one eye left from a 1944 wartime injury but that eye was sharp!!!

Although constantly suffering pain he never lost his good humor - we laughed a lot together.

I miss him.

Sigi

What an interesting character! Thank you for sharing your experience with Rolf. Again, the stories behind these coins is what make them special in more ways than one.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Here it is again - in the forthcoming Gorny&Mosch sale :(

http://www.sixbid.com/browse.html?auction=930&category=19303&lot=893181

 

7fx5.jpg

 

The coin belonged to the late Rolf Weinsheimer (Germany), passed away in March. His widow who doesn't know a thing about coins and who had come to hate them, commissioned the truckload (maybe more) of them as a whole to Rolf's longtime business partner. :cry:

Whom I informed. It is to be hoped that the coin will be withdrawn.

Sigi

 

Today, Michael Stoll of GORNY&MOSCH agreed to withdraw the coin from the auction.

Sigi

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