extant4cell Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 I have a fake Rouble 1707 in bronze, very sharp and heavy. Interested to get some additional info on original coin. The one I have looks like an old replica or fantasy coin. Similar to Uzd. coin 508, page 48 but in bronze (in 3rd edition ). Your opinion / additional info please. I saw one of these sold on one of Russian auctions about 4-5 years ago, but it looked like a copy of this one. It wasn't sharp at all... I got this one around that time in Melbourne. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKB Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 This is crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbq2 Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 I've seen these before, some years ago. Can't say I payed any attention to them for the reason stated by BKB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extant4cell Posted December 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 After not collecting for many years, this was one of the first coins I bought to research using internet... without having any ref. materials yet... Because I couldn't find anything worthy on Internet, I bought Uzdenikov catalog (don't laugh!), so some good came out from buying this crap coin. The only reason I like it is because it is heavier than 5/10 kopecks and it's sharp details (I still don't understand why anyone would make a copy from this fake? as the only similar "coin" that I found was sold as a copy and looked like an copy of this one produced by casting). I knew it was crap coin, but I decided to keep it until I can see the real one, at least on a picture, and as a reminder not to rush buying before you research. I think we all have something like that on a bottom of a drawer. Any crap is made for a purpose to copy something valuable, so I am trying to find at least an image of the original coin (recent sales or from collection...). Can anyone help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 I think it is ok to buy reproductions and lesser quality coins IF you know that you are doing so. I have purchased numerous such items knowingly for study. If you are scammed into such activites then not so OK. I purchased two US Trade Dollars at auction knowing quite well that they might be fakes (they were). But they are going to stay right in my collection as study pieces. I know--crap to some, study pieces for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extant4cell Posted December 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 I keep my "copies" or fakes separate from my regular collection. I probably shouldn't have called it a coin, as really it's not a coin, and not a rouble, and this probably misguided some people with the topic heading, I apologies for this. It is more like a piece for a investigation in criminal activity in numismatic world. May be one day there will be a branch of Interpol that will be looking into these things, I would be happy to sell them the whole lot I accumulated over years... What strikes me sometimes with these items is why (apart the obvious "fool someone and sell for money") anyone makes them. Still I would like to find a picture of a real rouble (!!) that this criminal element was suppose to portrait. I never managed to find one... Please note I updated Uzdenikov ref. it's coin 508, page 48 (in 3rd edition ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extant4cell Posted December 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 Sorry for double posts, but here is some additional info on original coin from Russian forum (if anyone interested): This 1707 rouble is located in Ameriaca (? Smithson University [translated from Russian, welcome correction]). This is the only known coin of this unique type. The picture below is taken by Dyakov for his catalog "Gold and Silver Coins of Peter I" and an earlier picture of the same coin (lesser quality) is available in Bitkin (2000). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE MOULDING Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 That would be the Smithsonian in Washington DC, home of Grand Duke Georgii Mikhailovich's copper collection and more.  For example  http://iipdigital.usembassy.gov/st/english/article/2009/11/20091124175845fjreffahcs0.5918848.html#axzz2ENXZxWwO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extant4cell Posted December 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2012 Thank you Steve for clarification and the link. This is an assumption of the most probable place of residents for this rouble at the moment that yet to be confirmed. Apparently, Dyakov doesn't have a reference for where he took that picture. One may have to ask him for this information directly... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgorS Posted December 8, 2012 Report Share Posted December 8, 2012 This rare 1707 is not in the Smithsonain collection. It is probably somewhere in Russia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extant4cell Posted December 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2012 It may be in the State Historical Museum or in the Hermitage in Russia. Apparently, it used to be in a collection of Emperor's Academy of Science before the revolution. That's what some people said, but no references were provided... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgorS Posted December 9, 2012 Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 It is at Hermitage. Can you share the reason for your search? BTW, the new book by Diakov on Gold and Silver coins of Peter I has a great picture of this coin, the best one ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extant4cell Posted December 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 Does anyone know where I can get a copy of Diakov on Gold and Silver coins of Peter I? I really want to see the picture of this coin. My interest in this is a pure fad and is based on a drive to research this coin because of a fake that I have. It intrigued me for the last few years now and I do come back to it from time to time. This time I am a lot luckier. Would love to see a picture from the book or even get the book. I am afraid it may be a bit of a rare book though with only 300+ copies printed. Does it say in Diakov that coin is from Hermitage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extant4cell Posted December 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 OK, I already saw the picture from Diakov 2012, still it could be better. Here it is: Looks to me like his picture - just a better resolution of the other ones with somewhat better details. It seams to me it is not a photograph of a real coin, but a photo taken from a cast copy of a coin that was used by GDGM. Some good sole scanned it for me, but it still doesn't look too silvery, so possible it is just a better photo of the same cast copy: Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbq2 Posted December 10, 2012 Report Share Posted December 10, 2012 Doesn't look cast. (IMHO) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgorS Posted December 10, 2012 Report Share Posted December 10, 2012 Diakov's book has photograph from the real coin. If you so desire, you can make a trip to Hermitage, pay $200 and ask them for a better photo. Did you know that there is an intersing super rare 1710 ruble? You should check into that one too. Why get stuck on just 1707. Picture of that one can be requested from GIM, probably for the same amount - $200. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted December 10, 2012 Report Share Posted December 10, 2012 Diakov's book has photograph from the real coin. If you so desire, you can make a trip to Hermitage, pay $200 and ask them for a better photo. Did you know that there is an intersing super rare 1710 ruble? You should check into that one too. Why get stuck on just 1707. Picture of that one can be requested from GIM, probably for the same amount - $200. Â rare coin? pay $$$ ok. Â rare picture of rare coin for $$$? no thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extant4cell Posted December 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2012 Well, I'm not planing to wright a book about rare roubles. Happy just with the picture from the book. If you believe the picture is from the real coin I can rest my case, that's what I wanted. My obsession with this is over. As to paying $200 for each picture... Hmmm... Well, that kind of explains why Diakov's book goes for around $280. I'd like to get a copy one day... By the way, I wrote to the shop what sells his book in Russia and they said that he printed this book in English as well and it should be sold outside Russia. Wonder if anyone know where? Would love to check the price. And yes, I would probably pay $200 if I could just hold that coin... But making a trip to Russia just for that, no thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgorS Posted December 10, 2012 Report Share Posted December 10, 2012 I think English version of the book will be available in US in January or so. Most likely this book will be sold in US for more than in Russia. Do not forget the shipping cost from there to here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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