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Coins database with integrated literature available for download & test

Guest rnsdb

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The coins.accdr Access 2007 database of 7477 coins and 5077 prices is available for download and test at http://rnsdb.x10.mx/...s/coinsdl.xhtml or at the home page http://rnsdb.x10.mx/rnsdb Note: It is not necessary to have Access 2007 or later installed. The only requirement is Windows XP, Vista, 7, or 8. Discuss problems installing and running at the rnsdb forum HERE or at a topic set up at coinpeople.com HERE.


This completes the Russian Numismatic Society computerization project to test literature, medals and coins databases first proposed in 1993. Note: You do not have to Access 2007 or later installed. The only requirement is Windows XP, Vista, 7, or 8.


3 or more volunteers are needed to test it and post results to a topic on the rnsdb site Forum and/or on this forum which has a topic set up. Screens appear to size correctly on Vista/Win 7 laptops & possibly desktops. Adjustments to XP resolution and character size may or may not be needed as described in the readme. Feedback is needed.


Features include:


1. The literature database of 476 Names, 625 reference works/auctions and 820 prices is now integrated, so you can run the functions of both

2. Both now include hyperlinks to important references, auctions and selected JRNS issues

3. Both include a keyword search capability

4. Conversion of auction prices in eg marks into dollars using xchg rate/commission % from the literature database

5. A powerful capability to filter from the 7477 those coins having known forgeries and selecting one for display on a single screen side by side with its forgery(s) with the accompanying identifying text. The 1912 Napoleon 1R commemorative from JRNS #7 is used for the test.

6. In the filter test for czar/denomination are 10K Plate money pieces showing auction prices by year with a link to JRNS #43 & #7 on plate money and inspectors stamps

7. In the filter test for a specific coin is the 1835 1 1/2 Family Ruble to show auction occurrences sorted by year beginning with 1910 Hess Klingert

8. Also in the filter test is Christies London 1979 Important Russian Coins and Metals filtered to show 109 lots of important coins sorted by lot# & priced in marks converted to $. This auction included 3 Family Rubles

9. Ability to inventory a personal collection with a click of the mouse

10. Numerous choices for sorting displays and reports.....czar, year, metal, value, etc.

11. Numerous ways to filter to work with manageable sizes.....metal, rarity, importance, year range, etc


Screen shots for these functions are on the coins download page for review prior to download and test.


Until copyright permission is obtained, most Brekke/Severin #, rarity and descriptions have been nulled out, leaving 71 with this data for testing and general interest...selected overstrikes, patterns, and fantasies. This I believe constitutes fair use. I have emailed Breeke publishers with no response and cannot find contacts for Severin. The database can be used for testing and adding forgeries, wire money, error coins, overdates, images, hyperlinks, etc.


This will be the last update until there are indications of feedback/participation. So far after two months, no one has run the literature or medals tests, posted on the Forum, or signed up for any of the 10 tasks on the Forum....adding images, prices, JRNS title pages, hyperlinks, forgeries etc.


Three key questions to be answered:

1. Is the function provided by the databases what's required, is there additional function needed, and can it be ported to remote internet servers?


2. Is there any other numismatic relational software currently available or under development, either open source or proprietary, which provides similar function?


3. Is the design overly complex for general use?




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Steve, thanks for the catch. Fixed. Bluegriffon keeps reverting relative links back to my c drive in unpredictable ways. Not sure why lit.mdb wasn't there, as it was this morning. I think my wife who doesn't want me spending time on this must have deleted it



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  • 5 months later...
Guest rnsdb

UPDATE 3/26/2013 While there have been several hundred visitors to http://rnsdb.x10.mx/rnsdb/, no one has reported downloading & testing the databases or signed up for any of the tasks on the Database Forum. I have started some of the tasks myself and can report the following progress:


1. All 91 issues of the Journal of the Russian Numismatic Society have been indexed along with 102 pdfs of selected articles, including all 52 on forgeries for volunteers wanting to take on the forgery task. While these pdfs are embedded and integral to the literature database, a link has been made available at the site without having to download and test the databases.


2. All 26 issues of the Newsletter of the Russian Numismatic Society (missing a few) have been indexed. No pdfs yet. This link is also available


3. Search on key word can be done using clt/F or edit/find in the browser window


4. Coin master records of forgeries from JRNS 85-91 have been duplicated from the original coin with a code indicating forgery. This allows filtering and a side by side comparison described in this thread. Images and text would help make this a very valuable function


Future work as time permits on the tasks described on the Database Forum: 1. Additional pdfs of JRNS articles 2. Additional links/pdfs of articles and historical and current coin catalogs/price realized 3. Adding these links to the respective coin/medal/literature item 4. Additional coin & medal forgeries from JRNS 1-84 and non-JRNS sources 5. Images and descriptions of coin/medal forgeries and their originals 6. Updating values from Krause & auctions 7. Adding lit/coin/medal images 8. Adding additional overstrikes 9. Adding overdates 10. Entering auction prices for rarer material 11. Additional tasks at the site


Note: these updates are not in the download test databases which are frozen at the test level. It's work to package up a run time version, and will only be done if there are volunteers.



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  • 2 weeks later...
Guest rnsdb

UPDATE 4/09/2013 Note: It is not necessary to have Access 2007 or later installed to install and run the test database. The only requirement is Windows XP, Vista, 7, or 8.


Lacking volunteers for the Forgery Task of going through the 52 jrns forgery articles, I began the task by entering 11 forgeries from jrns85-40 into the coins.accdr database with the following observations:


1. None of the forgeries had edge/weight/analysis text/manufacturing method eg casting, engraving, etc. Just pictures & name of the coin

2. I was able to identify all 11 to a Brekke/Severin variety

3. Images of the original coin were obtained from 1. internet search 2. Brekke/Severin/Uzdenikov scans 3. Corpus. In that priority. A $10 DVD of the Corpus was found on Ebay

4. Images of the forgery pages were scanned from jrns85-40.

5. Microsoft Paint was used to rotate the page, select the coin, crop it, and save it as file name Accessid#.jpg to C: RNS\rnspictures where all images reside

6. The importance of edges became apparent in identifying forgeries, so the original/forgery comparison form was redesigned to show edge as well as obv, rv, and text for the original & up to 3 forgeries

7. While the forgeries are an integral part of the coins database and meant to be used as such, the following screen shots are made available to show the results without having to download & install the database. Note 1912 ruble has much text for original & forgery which can be zoomed to full page in the database. DOD in the 1796cipher4k example equals degree of danger/difficulty in identifying as a forgery eg 5.5. 9.5 would be almost undetectable.


1704 1k 1720poltina 1723ruble 1726plate5k 1748ruble 1764Siberiapoluska 1787Taurida5k 1795MM5k 1796cipher4k

1912napoleonruble Datasheet31forgeries Form1912ruble DatabaseControlPanel


Note: The current test coin.accdr database does not have these included. It's work to package up a new run time version and 3 or more volunteers continue to be needed to download, test and comment on the results and take on the 12 tasks listed on the Database Forum at the rnsdb home page


It's important to recognize what a database approach is. The data comprising a coin has to be mostly codes. Codes for metal, czar, denomination, mint, original/novodel etc and has to use Structured Query Language SQL to filter, sort, and extract the data to display. If it's not that, it's not a database but rather an ad hoc collection of text files, images, excel spreadsheets, html pages, web sites, etc with limited usefullness

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Guest rnsdb

UPDATE 4/13/2013 Note: It is not necessary to have Access 2007 or later installed. The only requirement is Windows XP, Vista, 7, or 8. The coins.accdr Access 2007 database of 7477 coins, 22 forgeries, and 5077 prices with integrated literature of 476 Names, 625 reference works/auctions and 820 prices is available for download and test HERE Discuss problems installing, running and suggestions at the rnsdb forum HERE or at a topic set up at coinpeople.com HERE.


Lacking volunteers for the pdf task of scanning important auctions and reference works and making them available in the database, I began the task by scanning 12 works and adding them to the 10 extant pdfs/links. (These are in addition to the 65 pdfs for the JRNS 1-91 index HERE) See a datasheet of those literature items (except for jrns) with pdfs/links HERE. See a form view of the Georgii Michailovich Important Coins in My Collection HERE. See a coin equivalent form HERE. (Note: The W in orig indicates this coin has been forged). All 3 screen shots will give an idea of the concept. Scanned were:


1. Hess, Adolph #126 Collection of Gustav KLINGERT in Moscow - Russian money

2. Hess, Adolph #142 J.J. TOLSTOI Russian Money of the Nineteenth Century

3. Hess, Adolph-Lucerne Gold Coins & gold medals from the collection of Geo MIKHAILOVICH

4. Hess/Leu #39 Russland. Money-Medals-Orders. Collection of L. SODERMAN

5. Kende Galleries #149 BESPALOF Collection of Russian Coins. Part 1. Coins from 1462-1801

6. Kube, Rudolph #8 Slg Adolph HESSE:Slg Russischer Gold Silber und Kupfermz nebst Medaillen

7. Mikhailovich, Georgii Description and Illustration of Some Rare Coins In My Collection

8. Mikhailovich, Georgii Money of Czar Peter I V3 1711-1719 (50 Plates only)

9. Reichel, J.J. The Reichel Coin Collection in St. Petersburg

10. Rosenburg, H.S. #21 Auktions Katalog

11. Rosenburg, Sally #19 Auktions-Katalog. Slg Georg von GLOY (Russland baltische Provinzen)

12. Rosenburg, Sally #22 TSCHUMAKOFF F.A. Slg Auktions Katalog


Heidelberg University put up some auction pdfs which were discussed in a coinpeople post and were put in the database as links. This indicates more of these are becoming available on the internet. For contemporary catalogs and reference works however, a subtask is needed to determine permissions and copyright. For example, most of us have many of the important contemporary catalogs and reference works eg World Wide Coins, Frankfurter Munzhandlung, Busso Peus, Dimitri Markov, Giessener Munzhandlung, Superior, Swiss Bank, Spink, Sotheby's, Christies, UBS, Munzen und Medaillen, etc. The fact that SixBid has a few of these more recent ones indicates some are in the public domain but it would be necessary to research and determine permissions to make pdfs of most.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Guest rnsdb

UPDATE 4/24/2013 Note: It is not necessary to have Access 2007 or later installed. The only requirement is Windows XP, Vista, 7, or 8. The coins.accdr Access 2007 database of 7491 coins, 17 forgeries, and 5077 prices with integrated literature of 480 Names, 631 reference works/auctions and 820 prices is available for download and test HERE . Discuss problems installing and running at the rnsdb forum HERE or at a topic set up at coinpeople.com HERE. View the Database Control Panel HERE and sample screens HERE and HERE and HERE and HERE


After 8 months, I have reluctantly concluded there is no support for a SQL relational database for Russian numismatic literature, coins & medals. This no matter whether the user interface control panel and data exist as they currently do on the SQL Access desktop test database, or on some future remote SQL server with any user interface control panel and data yet to be defined, as well as who would do it.


More importantly, there is less than no support (if that's possible) for a Wiki volunteer effort to use the database to gather in all the far flung disparate data from the internet, books, auctions, coinpeople posts, etc into a consolidated form for all to share and avoid reinventing things. Images, forgeries, pdfs, links, auction prices, values, descriptive text, etc. It can't be a desktop vs cloud issue, as the RNS Journal 1-91 index IS on the cloud HERE with all articles indexed and searchable and with 99 pdfs. "No download, no install, it just works". Yet with over 1200 articles including the Newsletter and only 99 pdfs captured, there have been no volunteers for the pdf task to scan the remaining 1100 articles. Nor the forgery task, or any of the other 10 volunteer tasks. Ran Zander would be disappointed.


I continue to work on the 12 tasks and will make infrequent update posts for anyone curious. I can report the following progress:


1. A mouse clickable Russian cyrillic alphabet is now at the top of key forms. I found that painted keys or key caps and switching Windows between English and Russian to be very clumsy for entering coin legends, edges, mint/mintmaker marks, etc. This screen keyboard can be seen HERE Clicking builds up the character string in the adjacent box, and double clicking on the box copies the contents to the clipboard where it can be pasted into the appropriate field. Note: Any testers would need to use MS Control panel to install the Russian cyrillic character set.


2. 10 additional articles from JRNS have been scanned to pdfs, bringing the total to 99. This includes all 52 forgery articles for the Forgery Task

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do you think a current founder of russian numismatic society could be happy, when he finds out that you are going to use the journal materials on your website, instead of him selling printed back journal issues to the collectors and keeping the society with very very little budget, which sometimes not even enough to cover the next journal issue ? did you ask him ?

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Guest rnsdb

1. The Russian Numismatic Society is no more. There will be no more issues of the Journal, mailings or annual meetings in conjunction with the Jan NYC International Numismatic Convention.


2. The russiannumismaticsociety.org web site is defunct. All it ever had on it was the index to RNS issues 1-72 and some back issues for sale. It was RNS in name only. There never were any downloads, pdfs, links or anything of interest to the collector, although it would have been easy enough to do. There's no back issues now for sale


3. RNS was founded in 1979 by Jim Elmen, Ivan Schuster, and Sam Clements at the urging of Brekke and the participation of Ran Zander who became editor. Bob Julian was a charter member and eventual editor in 2000


4. I am member #7 or some low number. I can't find my membership card


5. I had extensive discussions and correspondence with Ran Zander, who as editor contributed many of the articles in JRNS, during the original database project in 1984. He was an enthusiastic supporter of a Wiki volunteer database approach, as was Brekke, making all material available to a wide audience for free. Free means not to sell.


6. Do you really feel that selling perhaps a total of 10 or 15 back issues of JRNS to 10 collectors for a total of $50 is more worthy than making all 1200 articles available to 40,000 collectors for generations to come for free from the database? How crass. Aren't you interested in making this fascinating area more readily available, turning tens of thousands of potential collectors into real ones?


7. I'm not selling anything. I'm giving it away. Nobody is counting mouse clicks. If you're selling something, it's not Wiki


8. The database project and web site is the only vestige left of RNS. It's my view that it can and should be THE basis for a revitalized RNS


9. As you have long appeared concerned with motives, I'll propose yet again what I've proposed before. Form a steering committee of Jim Elmen, Steve Moulding, Bob Julian, George Kolbe, yourself, and myself. I will donate the web site and the SQL Access database representing 25 years of evolution to the steering committee. This entity would then be the Russian Numismatic Society, oriented around the Wiki database project, eventually evolving to the cloud. New electronic issues of JRNS starting with #92 could easily be issued, eliminating the postage and membership dues problem which hindered RNS.


10. Why don't you take on task #13? Write up a charter, mission, and duties statement, create a distribution list, contact the other 4 parties seeking their participation, and coordinate the activities of the Steering Committee? Steering committee names would be featured prominently on the web site between the coin and the Mikhailovich visitors' medal. Just think....the content and insight of your 2100 posts and Steve's 1260 finding their way into the database would be seen by 20000 collectors for generations to come. You both can be immortal.


11. RNS would have a rebirth, making disparate valuable data on literature, coins, and medals scattered across a million places available to a mass audience at their fingertips and all free. Issues of JRNS and thousands of books gathering dust on shelves. Coinpeople posts, most of which have information belonging in the database, lost after the 2d page. All the images and knowledge in the heads and on the pcs of thousands of collectors and in thousands of auctions which may as well be on Mars. Etc etc. It's all a terrible waste


We collectors today benefit from the labors of GD Mikhailovitch, Reichel, Severin, Brekke, Julian, Uzdenikov, and all the great catalogers eg Hess, WW Coins, Giessner, Kolbe, Markov, etc. The torch has been passed on to us. It's time for us to carry on their work and prove ourselves worthy of the inheritance



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A couple of quick notes:


A new issue of JRNS is in preparation, I'm told. I, for one, submitted an article. We'll see what transpires. RNS may yet breathe again.


The website russiannumismaticsociety.org is indeed unavailable at this time. The web-hosting contract expired last year so it just died. I've paid for registration/hosting out my own pocket since 2001....a small contribution, I know. Anyway, nobody seems to have noticed except Ron (this all happened before talk of a new JRNS issue).


That said...the domain name is still registered to me through 2014 and it would be very easy to re-host it should the need arise.

I applaud Ron's enthusiasm and motives, we just differ on implementation. If an RNS core group can agree on the goals & technology, we could move forward.



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I am awating on Mr.Elmen's comments to above ( I sent him a link earlier this morning )

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I agree with Steve. There is an issue of the journal in the works. Good articles are already submitted. But the progress is slow, since it is hard to fill the shoes of the great editors the journal had in the past.

So for now it is just a labor of love...

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Guest rnsdb

UPDATE 5/5/2013 Note: It is not necessary to have Access 2007 or later installed. The only requirement is Windows XP, Vista, 7, or 8. The coins.accdr Access 2007 database of 7491 coins, 17 forgeries, and 5077 prices with integrated literature of 480 Names, 631 reference works/auctions and 820 prices is available for download and test HERE . Discuss problems installing and running at the rnsdb forum HERE or at a topic set up at coinpeople.com HERE. View the Database Control Panel HERE and sample screens HERE and HERE and HERE and HERE


1. The three .accdr databases have had their data tables split out into separate linked files: lit_be.mdb, coins_be.mdb and medals_be.mdb (be=backend). This will allow for much easier data entry in two ways:


a. These data tables can be stored in a remote SQL database on the rnsdb web site The adding/editing of records by volunteers can thus be done in real time on the cloud. The database .accdr files, stripped of the data tables, will consist only of queries, forms, reports and visual basic code, and together with images, will remain on the desktop. This is a hybrid cloud solution whereby an existing working desktop SQL Access design, evolved over many years and developed for a small number of users in a local area network (LAN) environment, can achieve the benefits of SQL on a remote server. Also when the users are world wide and not in a LAN as is the case of the Wiki database project. I've created a test MYSQL database and successfully connected to it from my pc, so this appears the way to go.


b. Alternatively, the volunteer updated be_.mdb files can be emailed and used to distribute updated _be.mdb files. Either of these approaches should work, but can't be implemented until there is indication of 5 or more volunteer testers trying out the coins test database and concluding a Wiki approach is viable.


2. The index to JRNS 1-91 has been changed so the article title is the link. Issues 1-25 have been scanned in their entirety, awaiting volunteers to split each issue into article pdfs using free splitter software described in the pdf task. 10 additional forgery titles have also been scanned bringing the total pdfs to 25 total issue pdfs and 110 article pdfs including 62 forgery articles for the forgery task Lacking volunteers, I'll continue to scan for my own use, but there won't be further uploads of the JRNS pdfs without indications of support for the Wiki database project

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  • 2 weeks later...

Dear Mr rnsdb,

This is some words from Mr. Elmen to me regarding you activities or anyone who is trying to take out materials from JRNS:

"1) The RNS is not dead. It has a bank account, numerous published journals and other references as assets and a new journal in preparation and a new printing company which is cheaper than the one used by Julian in the past. The organization has been dormant while we find a suitable replacement for Bob Julian as editor (not an easy task).


2) The RNS has always run at a slight financial loss with the shortfall made up by generous donations, mostly from us. At one time my wife donated $1300 when the society was very broke. Sales of back journals has always helped to keep the society afloat. Depriving the society of that potential income by rendering our inventory of back journals worthless would do great harm to the financial stability of the organization.


3) I am strongly against the free internet distribution of our copyrighted material.


4) If Mr. Vlack wants to cyber-help the RNS he could publish the front covers of the journals which contain the tables of contents and indicate how people can order the journals with articles of interest.. This could lead to higher recognition of and interest in the society.


Thanks for your concern,


James F. Elmen".


Moderators, please close this link from rnsdb who is violating Russian numismatic society copyright ! one-kuna

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  • Its not about Mr Zander, it is violating RNS journal copyright

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Guest rnsdb

I would have thought the copyrights to be held by Ran Zander and the hundreds of other Wiki volunteers who wrote them, not by RNS. I for one personally knew Ran Zander and he would not have wanted his hundreds of articles sold for profit. Jim and I go back 30 years. I bought many of my literature, coin and medal items from him. Tell Mr. Vlack? Not tell Ron?


It's all about Wiki. Wikepedia, which we all use, is free. The articles were contributed by volunteers. I don't have to pay Wikepedia $2 to read about Georgii Mikhailovich or the Battle of Poltava. The JRNS articles, too, were contributed by hundreds of volunteers who hold the copyright. Ask them if their work should be sold for profit? The literature, coin, and medal database all have links to the JRNS articles. Should someone doing reading on the Mikhaiovich visitors medal and who might want to buy one from Jim click on the 4 JRNS links to articles and get a message "Oops, sorry. You have to pay $5 a pop to read each of these".


How many times have all of us been reading the 1st page of an internet article and gotten that message? How many times have we paid? Does Steve own the copyright to the 180 forgery images, and should I pay him $3 for each image I copy and put in the database? If so, I owe him $540. When you all uploaded forgery images, did you pay when you copied the image? Does coinpeople.com own the copyright to all our posts?


Paying $25 membership a year for hard copy mailing to cover printing and mailing was one thing, but to make money charging $5 for a pdf with todays technology is an insult to Ran Zander and all the others who freely labored a good part of their lives to advance Russian numismatics. Do the monies go to their estates? Steve said he raised several thousand dollars selling jrns pdfs before his web site went down. I'll donate $2,000 to RNS if this will open it up, although I'd like to know what RNS will do with the money. I've already offered to donate the web site and Access code to RNS I guess my next step will be to offer $50 to test the database..


Nobody here seems to care about how much our lives have been enriched by Wiki or how much the Russian numismatic collector market would be expanded, enabled by Wiki free, readily available information. Russian numismatics is a hundred times more interesting than US numismatics. With the expanded number of collectors, Jim would sell 4x the coins at 50% higher bids


Your profile says your interests are auction catalogs. Dimitri Markov and George Kolbe, to their credit, have their auction catalogs on line as do dozens of other auction houses on Six Bid. Would you rather pay them $5 for a viewing?.


Let Wiki be the guiding light



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