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Indian Head Cents


Art1.2
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Looks like a nice '59. A lot of people don't realize that the older Indian Head Cents are thicker and weigh more than the brass coins.

 

 

 

There now, you see I did not know that, I have only been here a few days, and I have learnt something already.

Thanks Art1.2..

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Bob,

 

I looked over your gallery and WOW! Great coins and your photographs are very much inline with what I'm working to get to for my coins. Nice work.

 

I like your gallery and the organization that it allows. Is that your own software or a commercial package?

Thanks, Art! :art:

 

The software is an open source package called "Gallery" (details are here: http://gallery.menalto.com/). It runs on PHP, which means that it can be installed on just about any web server, and it is highly customizable. It is an older version which was available among the different tools offered by my hosting site (http://www.startlogic.com). I pay very little for practically unlimited space, just about $2 or $3 per month in addition to the domain registration fee which runs about $30 per year, I believe (this must be pretty standard since the money goes to the internet domain name registry and not to the hosting provider).

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Great site of yours! (coins and pictures) ... That large cent (and the 20¢ piece) are absolutely stunning, although everything else is also definitely drool material. :drool:

 

I made the decision, quite some time ago, that I'd rather have one piece of "drool material" than a date run of clearly circulated coins. It seems to work out about the same, pricewise, for any type that lasted a long time, so it becomes a matter of taste. (It does become punishing for short lived types, since you end up buying one expensive coin instead of one to ten real cheapies.) But my polar opposite is not the date collector, it's the die variety collector.

 

(Of course I'd much rather have a full date run of drool material! But such is not an option on my budget. My last name is not spelled "E-l-i-a-s-b-e-r-g.")

 

The large cent is the only one shown on that thread that is not in a slab, so the photography of it was much easier without the layer of plastic in the way (and I really hate photographing the new NGC slabs that let you see part of the edge at the price of losing part of the rim).

 

More to the actual topic of this thread, I ended up with one of each of the major Indian Head subtypes (no shield, shield but the cupro-nickel alloy, and copper); I just haven't photographed them yet.

 

Even the best lens will show a bit of distortion right around the edges of the image area (well, maybe the best lens that *I* could ever afford :) ).

 

At least part of this will be the simple fact that the edges of the coin are farther from you than the center is (it's the difference between the vertical leg of a right triangle and the hypotenuse, the other leg being the radius of the coin), it will result in a slight bit of fisheye effect the closer you get to the coin. Ideally, I'd like to park the camera about 12" from the coin and optically (not digitally!) magnify, rather than get up close. This makes the hyptenuse of the triangle a lot more like the long leg. Anyhow I have all of this with my kit lens except the "magnify" isn't as much as I'd like. I am not sure a macro lens will do this or whether using one will _require_ me to get so close to the coin I can see the indian's nose hairs. (I've also been apprised of such items as extenders that might help; I need to arrange with someone to try his lenses out on my camera before trying to buy stuff off the internet. Fortunately we both have Canons.)

 

Best to crop them a little bit so as to minimize that, which is especially noticeable (annoying) when taking pictures of things that have straight edges such as coin slabs. Although this kind of distortion might not be as noticeable with unslabbed circular coins, there would probably also be focussing issues right at the edge of the screen.

 

Agreed. I just want to be able to only crop away 20-30 percent of the picture rather than 90%.

 

With smaller size coins, I don't get much higher useful resolution than 1200x1200, either, with my Nikon D60 and Nikkor macro lens. The newer cameras probably go up a lot higher than this nowadays. Even so, some of the pictures I took years ago when I only had a Coolpix with 5 MP came out better at resolutions of about 800x800 than with my newer camera which has 10 MP.

 

It does seem like improvements to imaging products tend to shaft people trying to take pictures of coins! My first two scanners did a reasonably good job, back in my way-pre-camera days. They even produced good images of coins in slabs (i.e., not on the scanner glass)! Then the second one crapped out and I bought the successor model from HP--I think I went from model number 5300 to a 5400 since the 5300 had been discontinued. The 5400 was awful. It would invent colored pixels that weren't there, and both bright silver and dark copper would end up with sprinklings of bright green and red pixels in them. I guess the scanner doesn't see enough color variety so it invents some. I never did try a slab on it. But I am sure it scanned photographs and documents quite well. And we won't even discuss how poorly my even newer combination scanner/printer does.

 

I think a lot really depends more on the lighting and proper settings, plus being able to compensate for some things in the software after the shot is taken.

 

Abso-fragging-lutely.

 

The thing I would most love to be able to do is show in a face-on photo all the wonderful blue toning a lot of my coins have--but it's only visible holding the coin at an oblique angle, with the light hitting at a different oblique angle. I suppose in theory I could take an oblique angle photograph and warp it back to circular, but I suspect that would look absolutely awful.

 

Be sure to check out our Numismatic Photography forum here if you haven't done so already. :art:

 

I have been over there from time to time. What I really need to do is take a hands-on class, with me and the guy who knows what the heck he is doing in the same room, with me being able to try out his equipment to see what I should go and buy, but the closest I've seen to that is the ANA summer seminar class, and I can't really justify an entire week off for it.

 

Oh, and I've looked at your page with the Indian Head cents. Looks to me like in many cases you photographed the coins slightly off axis (they look a bit oblate) or perhaps that's my monitor? One thing I noticed is that the way that site is organized is, everything says it contains "[some number] items". An "item" appears to be a folder. That folder could be for a subtype, a date, an individual coin... or once there, the "item" could be actual individual photographs. If the captions read "2 subtypes" "37 dates" "2 coins" "two pictures" as appropriate, it would be more intuitive (but a lot harder to set up, I know). (I once created a bonestock HTML inventory page for my Russian coins... it's not out there on the internet, it resides on my hard drive--and so much of it was mind-numbingly repetitive crap (and god help me if I decided I wanted to add a column to all the tables) I wrote a C++ program to write the web page based on a database "dump" and another file that basically looked like HTML, except that where there would be a table it said something like "put a standard table here with coins 307, 418, 214 and 219 in it"!)

 

OK... well this was SUPPOSED to be a thread about IHCs and here I am babbling about photography and web pages. Dangit.

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I made the decision, quite some time ago, that I'd rather have one piece of "drool material" than a date run of clearly circulated coins. It seems to work out about the same, pricewise, for any type that lasted a long time, so it becomes a matter of taste. (It does become punishing for short lived types, since you end up buying one expensive coin instead of one to ten real cheapies.) But my polar opposite is not the date collector, it's the die variety collector.

 

(Of course I'd much rather have a full date run of drool material! But such is not an option on my budget. My last name is not spelled "E-l-i-a-s-b-e-r-g.")

 

There are certainly rewards and challenges in both kinds of collecting. That's what makes it fun!

 

Oh, and I've looked at your page with the Indian Head cents. Looks to me like in many cases you photographed the coins slightly off axis (they look a bit oblate) or perhaps that's my monitor?

 

Yes, I did that when it was difficult to get the lighting just right. A lot of these, especially the copper coins, were taken with indirect sunlight -- usually in the evening. Since I obviously could not change the angle of the source of lighting ( :hysterical: ), I built a little platform for the coin which could be tilted a little to get just the right amount of reflection. Of course, this meant that it was sometimes hard to align the camera at a 90% angle to the coin.

 

One thing I noticed is that the way that site is organized is, everything says it contains "[some number] items". An "item" appears to be a folder. That folder could be for a subtype, a date, an individual coin... or once there, the "item" could be actual individual photographs. If the captions read "2 subtypes" "37 dates" "2 coins" "two pictures" as appropriate, it would be more intuitive (but a lot harder to set up, I know).

 

Actually, the whole site needs to be taken down and redone with a proper LAMP design. I was just lazy -- Gallery is meant for people showing off their vacation pictures, and I just basically threw the pictures at it once I had them out of the camera and into the computer. The pages take forever to load because it has to traverse so many different albums in a hierarchical fashion before the first page is shown. When you get down deeper into the albums, response times seem to improve. Of course, when I started out and didn't have so many items, it wasn't an issue.

 

Do you work in software development? I am a musician, but spent about 4 years working part-time as an application and database developer between 2000-2004. It was a hobby before that, but I worked a lot with Oracle and C++ using Borland Builder (worked for a Windows shop). Now I'm more of a Linux geek and have also gotten into web development.

 

Steve Moulding used to frequent this forum ... he and I exchanged ideas once about a coin database design. It's very tricky to get right if you want to cover all the bases, as you probably know. Wonder if he still drops in here once in awhile?

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Yes, I did that when it was difficult to get the lighting just right. A lot of these, especially the copper coins, were taken with indirect sunlight -- usually in the evening. Since I obviously could not change the angle of the source of lighting ( :hysterical: ), I built a little platform for the coin which could be tilted a little to get just the right amount of reflection. Of course, this meant that it was sometimes hard to align the camera at a 90% angle to the coin.

 

You _could_ have hopped a plane for a city at a different latitude or built your house on a platform so that you could tilt it to compensate. Obviously you are just not dedicated enough to the hobby. :bleh:

 

Do you work in software development? I am a musician, but spent about 4 years working part-time as an application and database developer between 2000-2004. It was a hobby before that, but I worked a lot with Oracle and C++ using Borland Builder (worked for a Windows shop). Now I'm more of a Linux geek and have also gotten into web development.

 

Steve Moulding used to frequent this forum ... he and I exchanged ideas once about a coin database design. It's very tricky to get right if you want to cover all the bases, as you probably know. Wonder if he still drops in here once in awhile?

 

I do work in software but I know next to nothing about modern web development (and I really don't like trying to work in HTML; it's horrifically inconsistent in its syntax and I am constantly trying to look up how to specify some attribute in this _particular_ context).

 

I suppose if I post again in this thread I had damned well better have some pics of my three IHC type coins ready, or the Thread Security Agency (TSA) will be after me for hijacking.

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OK, here are my indians, one of each subtype. (They can also be seen here since I have added them and a bunch of other things to my type set page--more to come!)

 

Now that I have posted them I can start hijacking the thread again.

 

I tend to think of the 88% copper, 12% nickel alloy as "stainless copper" since it doesn't seem to tone.

 

Laurel wreath without shield:

C2a_o_1859_Cent.jpg

C2a_r_1859_Cent.jpg

 

 

Oak wreath with shield (Cupronickel):

C2b_o_1862_Cent.jpg

C2b_r_1862_Cent.jpg

 

 

 

Oak wreath with shield (Bronze): (Unfortunately the blue color toning just didn't come through on these pictures.)

C2c_o_1882_Cent.jpg

C2c_r_1882_Cent.jpg

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Beautiful cents. Thanks for sharing.

 

I added this to omnicoin today.

 

1906 Indian Head Cent MS64RB certified by ANACS

999707.jpg

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A few more Indians have been added on omnicoin.

 

Indian Head Cent 1907 AU55 RD - ANACS

999878.jpg

 

 

I have a lot of 1907 IHCs. It the most commonly available date and for a number of years I was working on a project of putting together a grading set using that date. I think that using only one date for the set helps to bring consistency. I also attempted to keep to the same toning as much as possible. I have a set of 1907's - raw in almost all grades from Fair to MS64. I have a similar set slabbed by ANACS but that only goes from G4 to AU58 right now. When I do put it up for display, I'll want it to have it's own website so that the pics can be manipulated for study.

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A few more Indians have been added on omnicoin.

 

Indian Head Cent 1907 AU55 RD - ANACS

999878.jpg

 

 

I have a lot of 1907 IHCs. It the most commonly available date and for a number of years I was working on a project of putting together a grading set using that date. I think that using only one date for the set helps to bring consistency. I also attempted to keep to the same toning as much as possible. I have a set of 1907's - raw in almost all grades from Fair to MS64. I have a similar set slabbed by ANACS but that only goes from G4 to AU58 right now. When I do put it up for display, I'll want it to have it's own website so that the pics can be manipulated for study.

 

A grading scale of 1907s would be awesome Art! I am looking forward to reviewing and using your display when it is done.

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  • 1 month later...

Added this picture to my coin library today. This is one of my favorite Indian Heads and a truly beautiful coin.

 

6878984069_ae10f62f85_z.jpg

1899 1C PF61RB stack2 by UGotaHaveArt, on Flickr

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That library is coming along nicely, Art!

 

Thanks Steve. I've added quite a few to my flickr site but haven't kept up with getting them all into omnicoin yet. Hopefully soon.

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This pup would be a good candidate for ugly coin of the week. (But I like it. Just don't know what happened to the little goodie.)

 

6894434729_d02677c624_z.jpg

1904 1C AG net obv2 by UGotaHaveArt, on Flickr

 

6894434939_f50ca576c9_z.jpg

1904 1C AG net rev2 by UGotaHaveArt, on Flickr

 

As you can see it's graded by ANACS as damaged, corroded - Fine. The AG is my personal grade for it.

 

6894434505_d475bc485f_z.jpg

1904 1C AG net obv by UGotaHaveArt, on Flickr

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What makes you give it an AG? I don't know the IHC series as well but I would figure visible letters would give it a VG? Maybe because they are raised, the grade is a little tougher than on incused "LIBERTY" in other designs.

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What makes you give it an AG? I don't know the IHC series as well but I would figure visible letters would give it a VG? Maybe because they are raised, the grade is a little tougher than on incused "LIBERTY" in other designs.

 

Technically it would grade much higher than AG but it's so bad that I feel on a net grade situation AG would be about the best it could deserve. Net grading was originated as a guide for what the value should be - gradewise - for a particular coin even though it was "damaged".

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While these coins are actually a separate Series they often get lumped with Indian Head Cents because they started the small cents and had such a short run.

 

6918590157_e55f71963c_z.jpg

1857 1C VF35 die break S-16 stack2 by UGotaHaveArt, on Flickr

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Here's a nice but damaged 1858 Small Letters to go with the 1857 above.

 

6783495998_3a1e9421b4_z.jpg

1858 1C SmLtrs VF20 net scratch stack2 by UGotaHaveArt, on Flickr

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I hope you've posted those over in the flying eagle thread.

 

Gosh I haven't. I don't even remember that we had a "Flying Eagle thread". I'm off to take a look.

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I hope you've posted those over in the flying eagle thread.

Gosh I haven't. I don't even remember that we had a "Flying Eagle thread". I'm off to take a look.

 

Well there's the Virtual Museum thread. It has some nice examples posted so I don't think I'll add anything there. There is an old old thread that hasn't had a post in many years. I'll put them there.

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