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roubles 1830 What do you say?


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your opinion very interesting.

buying or selling ?

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selling

having such coin in your possesion you should know its approximate value but see this link in case: http://www.m-dv.ru/catalog/id,1680/prohod.html :)

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having such coin in your possesion you should know its approximate value but see this link in case: http://www.m-dv.ru/catalog/id,1680/prohod.html :)

I saw this site, but with a price yet not determined. A price depends on the condition of coin. And I thereon am not very much known. That can you to me advise, comparing the condition of coins from this site with my coin ?

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I saw this site, but with a price yet not determined. A price depends on the condition of coin. And I thereon am not very much known. That can you to me advise, comparing the condition of coins from this site with my coin ?

I own English not freely, therefore I am sorry if something will write not clear. you can ask again me if something will not understand.

Thank you for understanding.

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I saw this site, but with a price yet not determined. A price depends on the condition of coin. And I thereon am not very much known. That can you to me advise, comparing the condition of coins from this site with my coin ?

I own English not freely, therefore I am sorry if something will write not clear. you can ask again me if something will not understand.

Thank you for understanding.

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having such coin in your possesion you should know its approximate value but see this link in case: http://www.m-dv.ru/catalog/id,1680/prohod.html :)

 

I used to own an 1832, and I went to the 1832 page on that site to look up the auction in which it was sold, and the auction was not listed (World Wide Coins), so the site is not as complete as it could be. But it's enough to give a rough idea.

 

First... You and your buyer need to be certain that this coin is genuine, and I am afraid a photograph isn't sufficient for that as it doesn't convey some of the aspects of what the planchet luster looks like. Based on planchet luster, I once spotted a fake 12 Ruble piece that got pulled from an auction--not on my say so but on the say-so of someone else. The auction house took the coin out of my hands while I was viewing it thinking "this might be fake", and withdrew the lot. I sometimes regret not offering to buy it as scrap since a fake (clearly labeled as such!) would have made a good companion piece in the exhibit I eventually put together on the platinum coinage. If it looks too lustrous, I'd be suspicious of it. The technology to deal with platinum in the 1830s was not very good, and the coins were struck on sponge platinum that had only partially been purified (by today's standards). That leads to coins that looked rather "blah" as far as their luster goes, at least for circulation strikes.

 

Assuming it is genuine, if it is a circulation strike, based on those pages kuna linked to it looks to be worth at least 35-40,000 euros, or over 50,000 dollars. If it is a proof it is worth much more, more than 100,000 USD--though that proof that sold for $120,000 was before the Russian market dropped in early 2009.

 

At prices like these, it would be in your interest to consign this coin to an auctioneer.

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If this is a fake - I would love to own it. Not for $100,000 of course. It looks absolutely beautiful.

it is a not imitation, to me she went across as an inheritance. To my grandfather she was presented in the sign of gratitude by one high-level official. All her history I will tell only to the man that will buy her. 100 000 I would be advice to get for her, but I really want for her on a few ten less than, therefore a price is for an agreement.

it is a not imitation, to me she went across as an inheritance. To my grandfather she was presented in the sign of gratitude by one high-level official. All her history I will tell only to the man that will buy her. 100 000 I would be advice to get for her, but I really want for her on a few ten less than, therefore a price is for an agreement.

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Terms are commercial: only on territory of Ukraine, abroad frightened for motion. A sale will take place in a bank.

you can invite experts so much, how many will want, it is your right. That she is original for me, doubts are not, because I know, where she takes place.

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I love those stories... :) especially when they come from Ukraina.

Instead love to see certificate.

By the way ... I said sometime ago to open the "corner of good stories"

I have one perfect for such place and will wait with that till opening ceremony :ok:

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I love those stories... :) especially when they come from Ukraina.

Instead love to see certificate.

By the way ... I said sometime ago to open the "corner of good stories"

I have one perfect for such place and will wait with that till opening ceremony :ok:

do you have something against Ukraine? I dislike your scornful relation.I do not compel you to buy her. I talk that I have such coin, want to sell. I am sure in her originality, and am not afraid of no the experts, if it will be safely for me.On official auction have a desire to propose, but it needs to be driven her to Russia. And it is already dangerous for me. If this was a copy I already a long ago would sell her for those money that me it was offered to.

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do you have something against Ukraine? I dislike your scornful relation.I do not compel you to buy her. I talk that I have such coin, want to sell. I am sure in her originality, and am not afraid of no the experts, if it will be safely for me.On official auction have a desire to propose, but it needs to be driven her to Russia. And it is already dangerous for me. If this was a copy I already a long ago would sell her for those money that me it was offered to.

 

 

I have lot of friends in Ukraina so don't have anything against. :)

About stories from Ukraina - simple facts that's all. Show us the certificate instead of talkin about you are sure ..because you are sure..and you know where it came from..so you are sure.. Second fact most of the very good copies made nowadays are from Ukraina.

It is obvious that noone here will buy it from you because this is place for logic minded people. :angry: And noone is offering such coin on a discussion forum. For 100 000,00 USD or more there is no problem to go to one of the Auction Houses mentioned by Candidate for instance.

:art:

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I have lot of friends in Ukraina so don't have anything against. :)

About stories from Ukraina - simple facts that's all. Show us the certificate instead of talkin about you are sure ..because you are sure..and you know where it came from..so you are sure.. Second fact most of the very good copies made nowadays are from Ukraina.

It is obvious that noone here will buy it from you because this is place for logic minded people. :angry: And noone is offering such coin on a discussion forum. For 100 000,00 USD or more there is no problem to go to one of the Auction Houses mentioned by Candidate for instance.

:art:

 

<----- logic minded person

 

hehehe

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Let me see if I have this straight. You are offering this coin, without even telling us whether it is a proof or not (which makes a huge difference in how much it is worth). You are willing to sell it for _considerably less_ than its value just to avoid having it leave Ukraina before the sale; you'd rather give that money up to sell it to one of us here. By "considerably less" I mean enough money to live off of for more than a year! You also offer no evidence of authenticity from an independent third party.

 

What's your motivation for wanting to give up all that money selling it to one of us for a discount? (It's not as if you know any of us personally and want to give us a good deal.) So the coin won't have to go to Russia to be sold? Well it wouldn't have to go to Russia even if there were no Ukrainian auctioneers; there are plenty of American and Western European auction houses with impeccable reputations--and the knowledge to reliably authenticate the coin--as well. Or is it that the knowledge to authenticate the coin is the true objection?

 

I was unable to see the coin well enough to determine its authenticity here (though I have my suspicions). The camera could be making it look better than it is, and if it _is_ a proof my rationale for suspicion weakens. But the way you are trying to handle the sale makes me 90% certain the coin is fake (or at the very least a obvious later restrike off original dies)--and you either know that or strongly suspect it.

 

If I am wrong about this you will get my abject apology. But you won't get that apology without showing me third party testimony that the coin is authentic--that could include either the statement of a knowledgeable party known to me who has actually handled the coin, or a competent/reputable auction house listing it.

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What are you all stressing about? There are a lot of buyers in Ukraine for this type of material. 1830 12 ruble I sold last year went to a former soviet republic. If this were original, then there would be market for it at the location of the coin. It is pretty obvious why it is not offered locally... Either it is a fake, or the photographed coin is not what you will receive.

 

I also have nothing against Ukraine. I am myself from Ukraine originally. However, lately a lot of fakes and crooks come from Ukraine. thus, one cannot be to cautious.

 

As to the story -- these were never popular and were never thought of as numismatic items (except very rare years). Look into Staraya Moneta advertisements for purchase/sale of platinum coins. Thus, why would anyone give it as a sign of gratitude? Moreover, it was always a case during Imperial Russia, and Soviet Union, and Post Soviet nonsense that it was an official that would be given a "present" in gratitude, not the other way around.

 

These coins are faked so well (since 1980's) that without analyzing the metal it is sometimes impossible to tell whether is is a fake or not. Presumption is always that it is a fake. Take it to Moscow for an expertise and sell it there. Do not need to bother with us...

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What are you all stressing about? There are a lot of buyers in Ukraine for this type of material. 1830 12 ruble I sold last year went to a former soviet republic. If this were original, then there would be market for it at the location of the coin. It is pretty obvious why it is not offered locally... Either it is a fake, or the photographed coin is not what you will receive.

 

I also have nothing against Ukraine. I am myself from Ukraine originally. However, lately a lot of fakes and crooks come from Ukraine. thus, one cannot be to cautious.

 

As to the story -- these were never popular and were never thought of as numismatic items (except very rare years). Look into Staraya Moneta advertisements for purchase/sale of platinum coins. Thus, why would anyone give it as a sign of gratitude? Moreover, it was always a case during Imperial Russia, and Soviet Union, and Post Soviet nonsense that it was an official that would be given a "present" in gratitude, not the other way around.

 

These coins are faked so well (since 1980's) that without analyzing the metal it is sometimes impossible to tell whether is is a fake or not. Presumption is always that it is a fake. Take it to Moscow for an expertise and sell it there. Do not need to bother with us...

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first that want, it for to thank you for your coments, advices and criticism.

1) I have not a single acquaintance of нумизмата or even antiquarian unfortunately. Therefore before how somewhere to go along with this coin, I know information through such forums.

2) I do not want to deal with dealers. And on the Ukrainian and Russian forums on this theme them bulk. All of them braid the intrigues, to deceive me. And to purchase for a half price, and then it is yet good to begin to work on her.

3) see the sale of coin an ideal variant, that is interested in a man this theme and will buy on your own.if you have such acquaintances that will want to buy this coin, then take me with them.

4) first hear that in Ukraine do official examination and give writing confirmation to authenticity of coin.

From it can draw conclusion,that I did right that came on your forum. And made sure once again, that on our forums nothing good will be advised me.

One Russian man wrote me that it is needed to check up her only for Ширяєва or Шиляєва does not know as correctly. What only he one can give reliable examination to me, and his estimation will be believed only.

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An auction house lives off its commissions, and (usually) the commission is 15% charged to the buyer. Since they get a fixed percentage of what the coin sells for, there's less opportunity for them to simply underpay you for the coin then get the full value out of it. (Sometimes the seller pays the commission but that just means the buyers can bid more since they won't have 15% added to their bids; it works out the same when it's all over.) An auction house has every interest in selling it for as much as possible since they get a fixed percentage of what it sells for, and you will get 85% or more of what the ultimate buyer pays.

 

If you want a recommendation for a US auctioneer who will charge you only 10% let me know.

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An auction house lives off its commissions, and (usually) the commission is 15% charged to the buyer. Since they get a fixed percentage of what the coin sells for, there's less opportunity for them to simply underpay you for the coin then get the full value out of it. (Sometimes the seller pays the commission but that just means the buyers can bid more since they won't have 15% added to their bids; it works out the same when it's all over.) An auction house has every interest in selling it for as much as possible since they get a fixed percentage of what it sells for, and you will get 85% or more of what the ultimate buyer pays.

 

If you want a recommendation for a US auctioneer who will charge you only 10% let me know.

I set to itself an aim the to sell this coin. And to safely on own and customer. Money is not small she costs therefore, I am interested in that all remained задоволенними. Because for such money will find on verge of earth. And the my life I estimate more expensive as this coin. Examination will do, but for concrete customer, there where he will say me and only in Ukraine.

I will not ride to the experts, if I will not be sure that a customer will trust this examination. Russians have a trust only to examinations of Ширяєва. In relation to Ukrainian auctions, I will think, will read, will consult on forums. Now I do not own sufficient information about these auctions.

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I set to itself an aim the to sell this coin. And to safely on own and customer. Money is not small she costs therefore, I am interested in that all remained задоволенними. Because for such money will find on verge of earth. And the my life I estimate more expensive as this coin. Examination will do, but for concrete customer, there where he will say me and only in Ukraine.

I will not ride to the experts, if I will not be sure that a customer will trust this examination. Russians have a trust only to examinations of Ширяєва. In relation to Ukrainian auctions, I will think, will read, will consult on forums. Now I do not own sufficient information about these auctions.

 

I believe you are talking about Shiriakov. He is the head of the numismatic department at the Moscow's State Historical Museum (aka GIM). If your intention is to sell online, you will need this certification or you can send it to a western grading company such as NGC. I have heard of people from Ukraine successfully sending NGC material and receiving it back safely.

 

But I think the best way for you to proceed is to visit these people:

http://dykat-auction.com.ua/contact.html

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