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Some will have difficulty to believe but these two coins sold in same time by "directorsssr" are fakes as well. I was able to determine myself that 10k 1781 is fake by comparing details of this coin with all known to me authentic examples. There is a lot of their pictures on the web. For 1771 I was in doubt and created separate topic on COINS.SU discussing authenticity of these 2 coins. See here for those who read Russian: http://coins.su/foru...showtopic=99213 Both were named fakes by individual I trust. Noone say anything in their defence. Apparently these 2 coins are from relatively new series of Siberia fakes which are made very convincing. Noone wanted to shear particular details how these fakes can be detected. I myself desided to buy one of these if their price would be reasonable for trying to find way how to tell them from authentic ones. But as you all see many people swollow this bait and fought for them as for real ones.

 

links to eBay:

http://www.ebay.com/...984.m1423.l2649

http://www.ebay.com/...984.m1423.l2649

Edited by akdrv
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I wouldn't bet on it. Looks like a fading silver plated coin...

You can distinguish silver coin from "silver plated" by picture?? :-)

Other coins of this seller may be fake (as "1812-1912 rouble") or under doubt, but this coin (rouble 1854) has no signs of fake and is undoubtfully genuine.

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You can distinguish silver coin from "silver plated" by picture?? :-)

Other coins of this seller may be fake (as "1812-1912 rouble") or under doubt, but this coin (rouble 1854) has no signs of fake and is undoubtfully genuine.

I just now that...

 

Kopeikin, thank you for your input. I've read your topic on CFN. Must agree it is a new generation of fake coins...

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You can distinguish silver coin from "silver plated" by picture?? :-)

Other coins of this seller may be fake (as "1812-1912 rouble") or under doubt, but this coin (rouble 1854) has no signs of fake and is undoubtfully genuine.

 

I don't understand how you can be so sure without seeing the edge of the coin. I find bumps along the obverse edge very suspect. At any rate, even if this coin is 100% genuine (as claimed by the seller), I would not touch it with a 10 foot poll - just because it came from that seller!

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I just now that...

I don't understand how you can be so sure without seeing the edge of the coin.

Same way as extant4cell "knows" that it is fake without seeing it's edge... :)

But mainly because after seening hundreds of similar coins I do not need to see the edge of this coin to say that it is genuine...

At any rate, even if this coin is 100% genuine (as claimed by the seller), I would not touch it with a 10 foot poll - just because it came from that seller!

Do you think that authenticity of the coin has relation to the personality of the seller? ;)
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Lets calm down a little. I am afraid that my argument is just like yours, after seeing number of these coins I feel it's a fake that is very similar to one very similar Chinese copy. In order for me to stay away from this coin it is a good enough argument for me. Besides, it is not a unique coin, I'd rather buy one from someone I trust with pictures of the coin that do not make me feel suspicious. Have I made mistakes previously, of cause I have, but that's exactly, why I will stay away from it. I don't like the picture, I don't like the surface close to the edge and stains etc, etc, etc... However, I can only express my opinion and God forbid me to talk you out from buying it if you like it...

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Thank you my friends for opening my eyes! :shock: It is still hard to understand - so convincing are the pictures. And I am not a beginner.

As to imitations - what is there still to come?

Thank you all again, you saved me money!

:yes: Sigi

 

 

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Sigi, I am glad, it was of help. Sorry, but just judging by the coin, it is difficult to decipher that it is a modern replica that looks like it was found in the ground. Very disappointing for you Sigi, but not to worry, you will find one this year, I'm sure!

 

The time of numismatics will come to an end when they come up with and release the replicators. People will start collecting the programs for replicators instead... Download a coin parameters (program), press a button and you have a new "novodel" of the coin you desire, with patina of your choice... eBay will flourish...

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Mistake counterfeiters did on 1781 reverse will be soon corrected. These replicas are so convincing that I am afraid we may start seeing these in NGC slabs soon. Does anyone knows how to tell these replicas from real coins? May be copper has a different composition or else. If these coins cannot be detected - this is end then for Siberia coin collecting.

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We'll just have to do what the ancient Greeks had to do to their coins when in doubt - do the multiple test cuts.. :rolleyes: . Get a metal testing solution or buy a microscope. The composition of different metals is different... When I was a kid, I spent hours looking at my coins under microscope, that's how I found my first cast fake rouble of Ekaterina and took it back to the guy I swapped it with to reverse the deal... There are still ways, but may not be able to do this just judging by the picture... All and all, collecting coins in really good grade will become difficult...

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Alas, slab is real: http://www.ngccoin.com/certlookup/CertResults.aspx?CertNumber=2781463-020

 

bf3a1b32-0b63-4bae-a394-ad485c72927b_obv_t.jpg

 

the coin is very questionable though... I don't like the look of the eagle on both sides, looks like a chuke... and on the first photo, a part of the cloud on the left looks like a little Easter bunny... :) is there a need to compare it to the real dies?

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Alas, slab is real: http://www.ngccoin.c...ber=2781463-020

The coin is very questionable though... I don't like the look of the eagle on both sides, looks like a chuke... and on the first photo, a part of the cloud on the left looks like a little Easter bunny... :) is there a need to compare it to the real dies?

 

Why would anyone fake something like this, though? :unsure:

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Illegal commercial gains... The coin and the slab (both!) are the same as on a register in NGC. That proves an extra time that trusting the grading company explicitly may cost you too much. They do make mistakes and with clock-like regularity...

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Some will have difficulty to believe but these two coins sold in same time by "directorsssr" are fakes as well. I was able to determine myself that 10k 1781 is fake by comparing details of this coin with all known to me authentic examples. There is a lot of their pictures on the web. For 1771 I was in doubt and created separate topic on COINS.SU discussing authenticity of these 2 coins. See here for those who read Russian: http://coins.su/foru...showtopic=99213 Both were named fakes by individual I trust. Noone say anything in their defence. Apparently these 2 coins are from relatively new series of Siberia fakes which are made very convincing. Noone wanted to shear particular details how these fakes can be detected. I myself desided to buy one of these if their price would be reasonable for trying to find way how to tell them from authentic ones. But as you all see many people swollow this bait and fought for them as for real ones.

 

links to eBay:

http://www.ebay.com/...984.m1423.l2649

http://www.ebay.com/...984.m1423.l2649

Hi, as you know I am the "winner" of the Siberian 10kop1771KM. I haven't paid yet. I obtained from the seller that he sends it to me on approval.

I hope to soon hold it in hand :rolleyes: for close examination.

Sigi

 

 

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Hi, as you know I am the "winner" of the Siberian 10kop1771KM. I haven't paid yet. I obtained from the seller that he sends it to me on approval.

I hope to soon hold it in hand :rolleyes: for close examination.

Sigi-

Sigi, I look forward to this. When you have it please share your findings here.

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Sigi, eBay, as any other auction platform doesn't like unpaying buyers, so it is better to pay and later get a reimbursement on return, as long as seller accepts returns... You will loose the money on postage though, but will keep your eBay privileges, and if the seller is not agreeable, there is always a PayPal resolution centre, so you are well covered. Good luck!

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Sigi, I look forward to this. When you have it please share your findings here.

Will do, of course, Sigi

Sigi, eBay, as any other auction platform doesn't like unpaying buyers, so it is better to pay and later get a reimbursement on return, as long as seller accepts returns... You will loose the money on postage though, but will keep your eBay privileges, and if the seller is not agreeable, there is always a PayPal resolution centre, so you are well covered. Good luck!

In his offer, the seller did not accept returns. As I wrote him about the suspicion he agreed to send me the coin on approval. I promised him to pay it or send it back. The coin is in the mails now.

Sigi

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Sigi, eBay, as any other auction platform doesn't like unpaying buyers, so it is better to pay and later get a reimbursement on return, as long as seller accepts returns... You will loose the money on postage though, but will keep your eBay privileges, and if the seller is not agreeable, there is always a PayPal resolution centre, so you are well covered. Good luck!

 

'extant4cell', are you nuts? sorry for my French. Money is very easy to be taken from you and very very difficult to get back.

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Fake Alexander III rouble:

 

 

Also from Prague, Czech Republic, also offering as "Rassia" (which is not the Czech word for Russia or Russian) :shock: probably the same seller.

Sigi

 

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'extant4cell', are you nuts? sorry for my French. Money is very easy to be taken for you and very very difficult to get back.

True, true... But the other side of the medal is, that if you don't pay, you get a strike from the seller. With enough strikes they disconnect you from buying. When you buy, you get into a contract. It is very unusual for seller to agree to send you a coin before you pay... eBay advises seller against this practice. Truth to be told, I have never had a problem of getting my money back when I had a case. A couple of times I even had to obtain spectral analysis from one of Melbourne central numismatic shops, but it never failed. It was troublesome, but, unless I was myself at fault for buying from seller with correct description that the coin is not genuine I always got my refund after sending it back. If the coin is genuine, but you don't like it, it's all different ball game, and you just keep the coin, and chose more careful next time...

Fake Alexander III rouble:

Agree 100% :)

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