Oldman Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 If it's out of one of Jim Elmen's World Wide sales then I have no doubts. If I remember correctly, according to Jim it's one of the 1870 Novodels. Best, Steve Please do not get me wrong - I respect Jim Elmen's professional opinion but looking at Brekke it seems like someone may be making an honest mistake. Well, anyway, this is just my opinion, an opinion of an old man... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigistenz Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 It was a fake. Hi, I've seen quite some coins over the years. It is hard to believe that this coin should be a fake. See their link below. Sigi http://www.sixbid.com/nav.php?lot=1165&p=viewlot&sid=341 - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgorS Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 Hi, I've seen quite some coins over the years. It is hard to believe that this coin should be a fake. See their link below. Sigi http://www.sixbid.com/nav.php?lot=1165&p=viewlot&sid=341 - Sigi, this is the type of fake that can only be identified by knowing of the existance of these particular fakes. On one of the Russian forums they showed two other coins that looked exactly the same as this one, including the remaining details of the undercoin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE MOULDING Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 There are two discussions going on here...just to be clear Sigi and Igor are talking about the 1762 2K. Back to the 1726 plate...also remember Jim catalogued and sold the Brekke collection. It's not a mistake he would make. I agree it's always good to be super cautious with these plates, but in this case I have no doubts that it's fine. I have good images of other B41As (for example the Gelos 2003) so can do a blink-comparison to see if there are die differences. I don't immediately see any by eye. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 Back to the 1726 plate...also remember Jim catalogued and sold the Brekke collection. It's not a mistake he would make. I agree it's always good to be super cautious with these plates, but in this case I have no doubts that it's fine. I have good images of other B41As (for example the Gelos 2003) so can do a blink-comparison to see if there are die differences. I don't immediately see any by eye. Steve I took a close look at it in Brekke (1977 catalog, p. 59). It looks good to me; everything matches, the uneven letter spacing and the shape of the digits as well as how everything lines up between the date and the legend. The slightly convex look of the rectangular plate is most likely due to camera distortion, IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKB Posted January 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 Wow, I missed this whole discussion. Jim Elman saw it before I bought it. Identified it as coin from his previous sale and had no doubt that it was original. My camera does distort the image a lot. I am on a market for a "new" used camera. If anyone has a spare D90 body with low actuation count, I am interested. I already found the lens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gxseries Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 BKB, is the 1743 ruble overstruck on something or double struck? Seems like something is there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE MOULDING Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 BKB, is the 1743 ruble overstruck on something or double struck? Seems like something is there. Good eye. I saw this coin in person and believe it's overstruck on a 1741 Rouble of Ivan...I believe (though correct me if I'm wrong) that 1743 is a much rarer overstrike than a 1742 or 1741. (sorry to jump in, BKB) Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbq2 Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 BKB, is the 1743 ruble overstruck on something or double struck? Seems like something is there. I see what you mean. Traces of another eagle on the reverse rotated about 25 degrees clockwise, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKB Posted January 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 Yep, it is over Ivan. That is the reason I bought the coin. I know that in SPB coins 1743 overstrike is much more rare than 41 or 42, which are mostly overstrikes. I think similar holds true with MMD, except there is no 1741. On the other hand, 42MMD is generally much more rare than 1743. Then again, this particular die is not listed in Bitkin or any other catalog that I have... Got to look into it some more. P.S. there are also traces of the name Ivan between MMD and B.M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgorS Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 I bought nothing at the NY Coins Show. Out of cusiousity I checked back to see how I did in 2010 - 6 coins in the first 3 month of 2010, after that nothing. Good thing I also collect medals - 6 copper medals in the last 3 month of 2010. After all, not so bad. Let's see how this year turns out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgorS Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 And speaking of Elizabeth overstrikes on Ivan, 2 of the coins I picked up last year were 1742 MMD and 1743 MMD (from Prokop 2 auction) and 1 1742 SPB (from Prokop 1 auction). Not in the best of conditions, but I wanted to have them because of the provenance. Let's see if I can attach the images. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKB Posted January 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 Please continue with the photos. 1742 spb -- you are being modest on the condition side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgorS Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 I call them as I see them. This one is Bitkin 107 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgorS Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 This one is not overstruck, but that's why I wanted it (in addition to it being Prokop's), since I already have the overstruck one. I did terribly bad in the original Prokop auctions - 1 1707 tymf. So I am trying to pick up a few more here and there, for fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKB Posted January 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 Very nice. I am getting rid of mine. These put it to shame. Congratulation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naftai Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 Nice buy indeed. I, on the other hand, had an unpleasant experience with the New York Sale. I bid online: I didn't want to be out late, because I had to wake up really early the next morning. I was lucky to win 3 of the 4 lots that I bid on. Two of them were the 1762 4 and 2 kopeks NGC XF45 for what I thought were high, but not exorbitant prices. When I came to pick up my lots, however, I was told that I didn't actually win those two coins: a floor bidder did. Showing them a print out of my lots won from their own website didn't help. They weren't shady about it, they acknowledged that there was a mistake and were very apologetic. But it was already done, I didn't have the coins I had hoped to own -- and for two days thought I will own. So the search will have to resume... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naftai Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 I had a similar experience during a Heritage auction a few years back. My pre-auction bid and the bid from a floor bidder were the same, but I didn't know this as the lot simply indicated the final price on the web system they were using. I didn't get an invoice, so I called them to ask why. They told me that the floor bidders have priority vs internet bidders. Now they changed their web-based system to clearly indicate if you are the winner of a particular lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyal Citizen Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 Very nice. I am getting rid of mine. Is it for sale? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKB Posted January 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 Practically sold already. Guy got to pick it up. If it falls through I will let you know. Why did you wait so long? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyal Citizen Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 Practically sold already. Guy got to pick it up. If it falls through I will let you know. Why did you wait so long? that's fine. just wanted to know. thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RARENUM Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 I did terribly bad in the original Prokop auctions - 1 1707 tymf. Do you have the images of "terribly bad" one tympf from Prokop collection? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 I had a similar experience during a Heritage auction a few years back. My pre-auction bid and the bid from a floor bidder were the same, but I didn't know this as the lot simply indicated the final price on the web system they were using. I didn't get an invoice, so I called them to ask why. They told me that the floor bidders have priority vs internet bidders. Now they changed their web-based system to clearly indicate if you are the winner of a particular lot. Heritage website is best in the business now. The NY Sale people have a lot to learn from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE MOULDING Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 Do you have the images of "terribly bad" one tympf from Prokop collection? Thanks. From my database: Aurea08 (Prokop) 200305, Lot 159 ($2370). Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RARENUM Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 From my database: Aurea08 (Prokop) 200305, Lot 159 ($2370). Steve Thank you Steve!!! . You have the best database for Russian coins . Igor, Is it variety with two dots between "I" and "B". Thanks,Rarenum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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