Rhino Posted October 3, 2010 Report Share Posted October 3, 2010 I've been watching an ebay auction of this coin, and I definitely agree that it's stunning, has great details, nice toning around the eagle, BUT... $3000+ ???? Is it really worth this much, or is it just a bidding war? How much would you say it is worth? Auction link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320596130914 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one-kuna Posted October 3, 2010 Report Share Posted October 3, 2010 If proof, - can be more; Heritage 2008 sold MS63 for 3738 USD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted October 3, 2010 Report Share Posted October 3, 2010 I've been watching an ebay auction of this coin, and I definitely agree that it's stunning, has great details, nice toning around the eagle, BUT... $3000+ ???? Is it really worth this much, or is it just a bidding war? How much would you say it is worth? Auction link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320596130914 The seller says "No Returns Accepted", which would make me uncomfortable about bidding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhino Posted October 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2010 Winning bid $3055. Wow. Looks like one of the users asked if it was proof (bottom of the page), to which the seller responded that he does not know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted October 4, 2010 Report Share Posted October 4, 2010 Winning bid $3055. Wow. Looks like one of the users asked if it was proof (bottom of the page), to which the seller responded that he does not know. "Q: Tell me please coin is in PROOF condition? A: I do not know. If it is, should be worth a ton!! We are not coin dealers nor experts - all these coins all came from an old coin dealers estate. Good luck and thanks." I don't think I understand the market for Russian coins anymore. I thought I understood it once. Now I am not so sure. I hope the buyer knows what he/she is doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candidate Posted October 4, 2010 Report Share Posted October 4, 2010 Heritage 2008 sold MS63 for 3738 USD Wasn't that Heritage #3009 (April 2010) ?(And there was another sale at # 3006 Sep.2009 - MS61 but same $3738) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterShell Posted October 4, 2010 Report Share Posted October 4, 2010 I don't think I understand the market for Russian coins anymore. I thought I understood it once. Now I am not so sure. I hope the buyer knows what he/she is doing. I have same feeling ...sometimes it is hard to believe that price went so far.. On the other side..if there are people that are willing to pay what can we say ? I think lot of such cases is the payment for MS - which is visible on the box or on the coin itself... This one will receive .. MS 65 .. 66 ? Have to check how many was in NGC... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyal Citizen Posted October 4, 2010 Report Share Posted October 4, 2010 The seller says "No Returns Accepted", which would make me uncomfortable about bidding. That was the main reason I did not "fight" for it. Also, I do not think the coin is proof. It is really nice and everything but when one is ready to pay this kind of money it would be much better to examine the coin personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one-kuna Posted October 4, 2010 Report Share Posted October 4, 2010 I've been watching an ebay auction of this coin, and I definitely agree that it's stunning, has great details, nice toning around the eagle, BUT... $3000+ ???? Is it really worth this much, or is it just a bidding war? How much would you say it is worth? Auction link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320596130914 The mathematic for prospective buyer of such coin is easy to follow: IF Heritage sold a coin in MS63 for $3738 plus commision, and IF this coin looks MS65/MS66 to the new buyer at least (if not proof), so potentially this coin can be in range of $5500 and up. Of course, IF there was no shill bidding. Too many IF's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candidate Posted October 4, 2010 Report Share Posted October 4, 2010 Heritage sold a coin in MS63 for $3738 plus commision Heritage publish their sales results with "BP" (comission) included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one-kuna Posted October 4, 2010 Report Share Posted October 4, 2010 Heritage publish their sales results with "BP" (comission) included. thanks, still the math above is in effect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marv Posted October 5, 2010 Report Share Posted October 5, 2010 The mathematic for prospective buyer of such coin is easy to follow: IF Heritage sold a coin in MS63 for $3738 plus commision, and IF this coin looks MS65/MS66 to the new buyer at least (if not proof), so potentially this coin can be in range of $5500 and up. Of course, IF there was no shill bidding. Too many IF's If the buyer intends to play the slabbing game, he/she is taking a big risk buying something sight unseen with no returns. One simply cannot get a true idea of the condition of a coin, especially as it relates to a slab grade, from a picture. Pictures will not, in general, show hairlines, and a coin which appears superb gem in a picture can come back as a "61" easily if it has many fine hairlines. In my opinion, this buyer is not very smart to pay that kind of money for a coin based on a picture, with no return privilege. I have personally experienced this. I have a Chinese pavillion dollar which, in hand, looks like a solid gem until you take out the magnifying glass and see that the surfaces have been cleaned and there are many fine hairlines on the obverse under the toning. I sent it to NGC, and it came back as MS61. I sent it to PCGS, not believing, and it came back as MS61. To me it's crazy, because the eye appeal of this coin without a glass, is wonderful. But that's the reality of the slab game. Marv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altyn Posted October 5, 2010 Report Share Posted October 5, 2010 I sent it to NGC, and it came back as MS61. I sent it to PCGS, not believing, and it came back as MS61. To me it's crazy, because the eye appeal of this coin without a glass, is wonderful. But that's the reality of the slab game. Marv Sometimes die polishing looks deceptively similar to hairlines. The grading companies would rather see hairlines where there are really no hairlines but not the other way around. So your case is truly remarkable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marv Posted October 6, 2010 Report Share Posted October 6, 2010 Sometimes die polishing looks deceptively similar to hairlines. The grading companies would rather see hairlines where there are really no hairlines but not the other way around. So your case is truly remarkable. Die polishing lines, as I'm sure you know, are caused by hairlines in the die. This in turn creates raised lines on the surface of a coin struck from the die. I've been to the NGC grading classes, and any decent grader worth his/her salt can distinguish between raised lines on a surface caused by die polishing and hairlines which are grooves cut into the coin's surfaces caused by abrasion of tiny hard particles when a coin is wiped or cleaned. One must of course look at the surface with a good glass, but it's really not that hard to distinguish. In my case, the coin I submitted does have hairlines AND die polishing lines, and there are indeed widespread patches of hairlines, but without a glass and a close look, the coin is very nice. I've seen many coins in MS63 slabs that have as many hairlines. So it's a judgment call as to how many lines begets what grade. My point was that no one should buy a raw coin sight unseen (including seeing it only in a picture) expecting to put it into a slab and reap a reward. Right now, both major grading companies are really sensitive to hairlines, perhaps more than in the past. Marv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altyn Posted October 6, 2010 Report Share Posted October 6, 2010 Right now, both major grading companies are really sensitive to hairlines, perhaps more than in the past. Marv ...which means that you can resubmit your coin and it will come back with the verdict "UNC details/hairlines" ( which you apparently failed to achieve earlier in spite of the two attempts ) No arguing about the rest of your post. Buying an expensive coin based only on the image is very risky. Good luck to the winner - hopefully he/she won't get very disappointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kopeikin Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 These days the chances to buy a gradable coin on the eBay by just trusting the poor pictures and half truth descriptions are approaching zero. I have got no luck for getting the gradable coins lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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