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1970 5 kopek - or maybe not?


gxseries
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I bought this 5 kopek coin dated 1970 and this particular coin is a rather tough key date.

 

983136.jpg

 

I didn't think much about this coin but was happy as it is a tough key date that I was looking for a while. However when I glanced at the photo I took, there is a "scratch" on the number "0" which for one second I thought was a possibility of a re-engraved 6 to 0. It would honestly suck but I have no other examples of a 1970 or 1976 5 kopek to compare it with.

 

19705knegativea.jpg

 

What do you think?

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Comparing 1970 and 1976 5 Kopeck pieces is pointless. Most of 1976 5 Kopeck pieces have the same obverse (of 1958) as 1970 coins and the same reverse. Differences if any are very minor and related to individual die imperfections. There is a good chance your coin is a fake made out of 1976. Use 40-x magnification to find out.

 

WCO

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The one difference I notice from the OP's coin and the one from the auction catalogue is that the upper and lower portions of the numeral 0 are heavier on the OP's coin. It might help to see a colour enlargement of the date area on the piece, since it is in greyscale it is more difficult to discern subtle differences in metal flow that might have been affected if the date was indeed modified.

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The one difference I notice from the OP's coin and the one from the auction catalogue is that the upper and lower portions of the numeral 0 are heavier on the OP's coin. It might help to see a colour enlargement of the date area on the piece, since it is in greyscale it is more difficult to discern subtle differences in metal flow that might have been affected if the date was indeed modified.

 

As 1976 is suspected to have been the host coin it would be helpful to compare it.

Could anyone contribute a picture of a well preserved 1976?

Sigi

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I bought this 5 kopek coin dated 1970 and this particular coin is a rather tough key date.

 

983136.jpg

 

I didn't think much about this coin but was happy as it is a tough key date that I was looking for a while. However when I glanced at the photo I took, there is a "scratch" on the number "0" which for one second I thought was a possibility of a re-engraved 6 to 0. It would honestly suck but I have no other examples of a 1970 or 1976 5 kopek to compare it with.

 

19705knegativea.jpg

 

What do you think?

I think it might well be an altered date. The "0" in the date looks quite different to me from the "0" seen in the Wolmar coin posted by alexbq2.

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19705knegativea.jpg

What do you think?

It looks like an altered 1976 to me.

 

Compare the inner left line of the "0" in the original with your coin ... the original is fairly straight, whereas the same line in your coin is definitely tilted to the left.

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I bought this 5 kopek coin dated 1970 and this particular coin is a rather tough key date.

 

 

I didn't think much about this coin but was happy as it is a tough key date that I was looking for a while. However when I glanced at the photo I took, there is a "scratch" on the number "0" which for one second I thought was a possibility of a re-engraved 6 to 0. It would honestly suck but I have no other examples of a 1970 or 1976 5 kopek to compare it with.

 

19705knegativea.jpg

 

What do you think?

it is very much doubts that who wants to counterfeit absolutly unrare coin in such condition?

just a little years ago these coins were available in brooklyn at 50 cents or less each,

and there were better condition that this one of 1970,

also by the only one I believe authorized work by Fedorin this one has a variey which estimated at 25 y e

but I do not know if this is a variant presented by you :ninja:

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it is very much doubts that who wants to counterfeit absolutly unrare coin in such condition?

just a little years ago these coins were available in brooklyn at 50 cents or less each,

and there were better condition that this one of 1970,

also by the only one I believe authorized work by Fedorin this one has a variey which estimated at 25 y e

but I do not know if this is a variant presented by you :ninja:

 

I'm afraid you are not well informed in this case (at least less informed than about past auctions catalogues).

In the "only-one-you-believe" work by Fedorin (3rd edition) there are no varieties of this coin, only one main type (Fedorin listed it at "50 ye").

5 kop. 1970 is the most scarce date out of 1961-1991 series, and it's current market value is around $150-$200 in VF-XF condition.

So there is some reason to counterfeit it: simply in order to transfer "50 cents" (actually, even less than that) into $150.

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I'm afraid you are not well informed in this case (at least less informed than about past auctions catalogues).

In the "only-one-you-believe" work by Fedorin (3rd edition) there are no varieties of this coin, only one main type (Fedorin listed it at "50 ye").

5 kop. 1970 is the most scarce date out of 1961-1991 series, and it's current market value is around $150-$200 in VF-XF condition.

So there is some reason to counterfeit it: simply in order to transfer "50 cents" (actually, even less than that) into $150.

this particular coin is in bad condition;

there is no proof that a date was altered on this particular coin;

in my book second edition it is listed as 25 ye;

in real life, who and where in Russia reported a counterfeit of this coin? :ninja:

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this particular coin is in bad condition;

there is no proof that a date was altered on this particular coin;

in my book second edition it is listed as 25 ye;

in real life, who and where in Russia reported a counterfeit of this coin? :ninja:

Anyway, statement that it is "absolutly unrare coin" is not correct$ it is not "rare", but scarce ("key date") and popular.

Also, even in your "book second edition" (2004) there are no varieties of this year listed - so there are no other "variants", which you had mentioned.

 

And "this particular coin" would be "about VF" (imho) and still cost $100~$150, if genuine (but most probably it is not).

 

Counterfeits of other scarce coins of 1961-1991 period (as 20 kopeks 1991 w/o mintmark, 20 kopeks 1976, etc.) are informed about quite often; I noted such reports in web-forums, etc. - even though I'm not really interested in coins of this period.

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Thank you for your opinion,

if proof presented on this particular coin that it is a genuine's one, would you pay $100-150 :ninja:

I also asked you specifically about this coin - show me a link on its counterfeit ;)

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if proof presented on this particular coin that it is a genuine's one, would you pay $100-150

If you ask me personally - why should I ? I have one in UNC (I owe it since 1975 or so).

And if I didn't have - I'd rather search for one in better condition, and pay maybe $200-$250 for AU or UNC.

But there are collectors who can not afford to pay $200, so they may buy this particular one for up to $100 or even $150 (if they will not notice and have any doubts about possibility of altered date; by the way, the topicstarter did buy it, didn't he?).

 

As for "proof": I'm sure for much more than 50% that this coin was counterfeited (maybe, for 95%).

As I wrote before, I'm not an expert in this period, so I can not prove or professionally reason and explain it (especially, with pictures provided).

But even these pictures are enough to see traces of some suspicious mechanical damage near last digit of date.

And generally in any case when there is some doubt (even a 10% chance) of counterfeit I'd advise to refrain from purchase of this (or any other) coin.

 

I also asked you specifically about this coin - show me a link on its counterfeit :ninja:

If you ask something - you better say "please" next time.

I'm not obliged to do any investigation or prove anything to you personally.

 

But (for other participants) here are some links:

One (very rude one) on sale on "Molotok" - http://molotok.ru/item1138859531_5_kopeek_...o_original.html

Discussion and pictures at web-forum: http://coins.su/forum/index.php?showtopic=46681

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As I wrote before, I'm not an expert in this period, so I can not prove or professionally reason and explain it (especially, with pictures provided).

thanks again4 your opinion :ninja:

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