Midleton Posted May 1, 2010 Report Share Posted May 1, 2010 What the best way to see when another of these coins will be going up for auction? (Yes I know the price) I know one went last august in a UBS auction. Is there a website that I can check or get an email alert or something? Thanks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted May 1, 2010 Report Share Posted May 1, 2010 What the best way to see when another of these coins will be going up for auction? (Yes I know the price) I know one went last august in a UBS auction. Is there a website that I can check or get an email alert or something? Thanks... try sixbid.com and keep looking for new auctions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted May 1, 2010 Report Share Posted May 1, 2010 What the best way to see when another of these coins will be going up for auction? (Yes I know the price) I know one went last august in a UBS auction. Is there a website that I can check or get an email alert or something? Thanks... There's one being auctioned by Hess-Divo in a couple of weeks (May 18-19): 1902 gold 37-1/2 rouble donative coin http://www.sixbid.com will have most, or maybe all, of the auctions which might have one of these to offer. They show up occasionally at Künker, UBS, Hess-Divo, Gorny & Mosch, NGSA and the New York Sale (Dmitry Markov: http://www.russian-coins.net), among others. Sometimes you can sign up at an auction house for their e-newsletters, if they send one out, and you receive an e-mail notification. However, nobody will send out a notice for any particular coin, so you have to browse the auction lots. Fortunately, sixbid.com has made this very easy to do for most of the auctions they represent. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midleton Posted May 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2010 That's a nice coin. I think I could find a better example but it's hard to tell from a photo and I cannot speak German! But that's a great website and I will be checking it often. Thanks for taking the time to answer. Need to do some research about the best examples of this coin and it's recent sale prices.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted May 2, 2010 Report Share Posted May 2, 2010 That's a nice coin. I think I could find a better example but it's hard to tell from a photo and I cannot speak German! But that's a great website and I will be checking it often. Thanks for taking the time to answer. Need to do some research about the best examples of this coin and it's recent sale prices.... With coins of this nature, condition sometimes becomes of secondary importance. For one thing, these coins never saw circulation in the strictest sense of the word. And if they did, it was either some collector who didn't care about the condition (e.g. giving it to his kids to play with), or else someone who needed to sell it as bullion during times of strife: For example, there was a very rare donative coin of Nicholas II sold in the 2008 NGSA sale (not 37-1/2 roubles, but one of the 1896 or 1908 25 rouble / 2-1/2 Imperial gold coins) which actually had filing marks on the rim, AFAICR. Who would do such a thing unless someone needed to see if it was really gold, or only gold-plated? The recent UBS sale had one that was scratched or otherwise damaged, I believe. Nevertheless, it found a buyer! With coins minted in great numbers, the condition will determine the market. Otherwise, it isn't really such a great factor, although I suppose a 37-1/2 rouble with a lot of marks or scratches might not bring the same price as one in pristine condition. I am wondering for a long time about these coins, though ... they show up a little TOO OFTEN for having been minted in such small numbers, IMHO. Are they "auction whores" that never see a real buyer, i.e. the auction house can boast and say: "Oh yes, we sold such-and-such for a record price of $$$", but it has been passed around from one house to another? Or do real people buy these coins??? (Please excuse me for farting in church, so to speak...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine Posted May 2, 2010 Report Share Posted May 2, 2010 With coins of this nature, condition sometimes becomes of secondary importance. For one thing, these coins never saw circulation in the strictest sense of the word. And if they did, it was either some collector who didn't care about the condition (e.g. giving it to his kids to play with), or else someone who needed to sell it as bullion during times of strife: For example, there was a very rare donative coin of Nicholas II sold in the 2008 NGSA sale (not 37-1/2 roubles, but one of the 1896 or 1908 25 rouble / 2-1/2 Imperial gold coins) which actually had filing marks on the rim, AFAICR. Who would do such a thing unless someone needed to see if it was really gold, or only gold-plated? The recent UBS sale had one that was scratched or otherwise damaged, I believe. Nevertheless, it found a buyer! With coins minted in great numbers, the condition will determine the market. Otherwise, it isn't really such a great factor, although I suppose a 37-1/2 rouble with a lot of marks or scratches might not bring the same price as one in pristine condition. I am wondering for a long time about these coins, though ... they show up a little TOO OFTEN for having been minted in such small numbers, IMHO. Are they "auction whores" that never see a real buyer, i.e. the auction house can boast and say: "Oh yes, we sold such-and-such for a record price of $$$", but it has been passed around from one house to another? Or do real people buy these coins??? (Please excuse me for farting in church, so to speak...) A little story. This past January at Bowers & Merena NYINC auction lot viewing I spent hours looking at the Russian coins. A fellow came in with a heavy Russian accent, sat down next to me, and asked to look at the 37 1/2 roubles. He didn't want to see anything else, and I don't event recall if he asked for a bidder number to be assigned to him. I have no idea who won the coin that evening, but he looked very much like a real buyer to me. BTW, the coin was graded AU by B&M and Genuine-Rim Repair by PCGS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgorS Posted May 2, 2010 Report Share Posted May 2, 2010 A little story. This past January at Bowers & Merena NYINC auction lot viewing I spent hours looking at the Russian coins. A fellow came in with a heavy Russian accent, sat down next to me, and asked to look at the 37 1/2 roubles. He didn't want to see anything else, and I don't event recall if he asked for a bidder number to be assigned to him. I have no idea who won the coin that evening, but he looked very much like a real buyer to me. BTW, the coin was graded AU by B&M and Genuine-Rim Repair by PCGS. He bought the coin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgorS Posted May 2, 2010 Report Share Posted May 2, 2010 That's a nice coin. I think I could find a better example but it's hard to tell from a photo and I cannot speak German!... If you call them, they speak all the languages there, take a pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midleton Posted May 3, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2010 Hmmm so I assume IgorS bought the coin... And they appear a little TOO often? I assume I can buy safely from these big auction houses anyway....I assume... My own knowledge would never be really good enough to know.... I am not a coin expert but I really love the Nicholas 2 gold coins, and I want to collect the big boys... I want to pay a fair price and I am terrified of fakes. Then I would pretty much just hang onto it forever...have a nice surprise for my son.....later.....muuuuuuch later! I hope it doesn't piss anyone off that someone who knows so little about coins wants such a nice one. It's not wasted. I look at the coins I have now quite often and although my knowledge is poor I hold them in my hand..I feel the weight of them and imagine life in Imperial Russia......pretty interesting. Interesting also to know that the conditon is less important when the mintage is low....never knew that... I thought even within the low mintage there would be a great variation in price. Estimate for that one is 50,000 francs.....I know I should just buy a book (and maybe I will) but anyone have a range on this? Maybe it's impossible to tell. I think I will ring them and ask about this one. Thanks guys... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbq2 Posted May 3, 2010 Report Share Posted May 3, 2010 You can see some auction results online: http://m-dv.ru/catalog/id,947/all-prohod.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhino Posted May 3, 2010 Report Share Posted May 3, 2010 I wish I had deep enough pockets to be able to even think about buying ANY gold Nicholas II coins like these I've been dreaming of an 1896 Coronation Rouble for a year now that would be the most valuable I'd go. But good luck in your search for a 37.5, that's definitely one of a kind... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted May 4, 2010 Report Share Posted May 4, 2010 Hmmm so I assume IgorS bought the coin... Why do you assume that? And they appear a little TOO often? It's just my personal impression that they show up rather frequently at auctions ... they have probably become objects of speculation, and buyers don't hold on to them very long hoping to turn a quick profit. I assume I can buy safely from these big auction houses anyway....I assume... They do have a reputation to watch out for. My own knowledge would never be really good enough to know....I am not a coin expert but I really love the Nicholas 2 gold coins, and I want to collect the big boys... I want to pay a fair price and I am terrified of fakes. Then I would pretty much just hang onto it forever...have a nice surprise for my son.....later.....muuuuuuch later! You are wise to be terrified of fakes. I think we all are. The more you know about what you buy, the better position you will be in to avoid becoming a victim of a scam. I hope it doesn't piss anyone off that someone who knows so little about coins wants such a nice one. It's not wasted. I look at the coins I have now quite often and although my knowledge is poor I hold them in my hand..I feel the weight of them and imagine life in Imperial Russia......pretty interesting. Yes, it can be fascinating to imagine who might have held the coins one collects. Doesn't it make you want to learn more about them? Interesting also to know that the conditon is less important when the mintage is low....never knew that... I thought even within the low mintage there would be a great variation in price. That's not what I meant. The reason these particular coins never saw circulation is because they were never intended to be used except as gifts by the Tsar to his visiting VIPs. Therefore, they cannot possibly have been subjected to the kind of wear that business strike coinage will see. Mintage numbers alone have nothing to do with circulation. When I said: "With coins minted in great numbers, the condition will determine the market..." what I meant was, that coins which are exceedingly rare will often bring very high prices even if they are in poor grade, holed, have jewelry mount removal or are otherwise damaged. Obviously, given two coins of the same type, the one in better condition will command a higher price. However, if the coins are not readily available for comparison, the lower grade coin might be sold at a higher price than the higher grade coin at a certain point in time just because there was a buyer who wanted it and was willing to pay that price and not wait 5-10 years to see another one offered at auction. Estimate for that one is 50,000 francs.....I know I should just buy a book (and maybe I will) but anyone have a range on this? Maybe it's impossible to tell. Estimates usually have very little to do with the actual hammer price at an auction. In most cases, estimates will be somewhat low so as to encourage potential bidders. One 37-1/2 rouble coin sold for about twice that amount not too long ago at another UBS auction. And I believe that the one sold at the 2008 NGSA auction brought even more, but can't remember how much. I think I will ring them and ask about this one. Please let us know what you find out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted May 4, 2010 Report Share Posted May 4, 2010 If you'd like to learn more about these, there was an excellent article written in the JRNS (Journal of the Russian Numismatic Society) No. 68 - summer of 1999 - by Mikhail Smirnov (was that Viktor Smirnov's son, by any chance?) You can become a member of the RNS or order back issues of the journal here: http://www.russiannumismaticsociety.org Here are some recent auction prices realized (information gleaned mostly from various back issues of the JRNS). I think you will see some interesting deviations which have nothing to do with condition: Apr 1999 - Hess-Divo - CHF 28,500 Apr 2000 - D. Markov Mail-Bid - $23,000 June 2005 - Künker sale - €54,000 Jan. 2006 - New York Sale, D. Markov - $58,000 Mar. 2006 - Giessener Münzhandlung (Gorny & Mosch) - €41,000 Apr. 2006 - Monety i Medali (Ekaterina) sale 36 - $67,000 (listed as "VF/XF"!) Sept. 2006 - Alexander (Moscow) - $88,000 Sept. 2006 - UBS No. 67 - CHF 60,000 estimate (brought approx. CHF 90,000 if memory serves correctly - AU with a rim ding) Dec. 2008 - NGSA Geneva - CHF 110,000 (advertised as "XF"!) Mar. 2009 - Künker sale - €100,000 (advertised as proof...???) Oct. 2009 - Astarte - CHF 75,000 (advertised as "XF, scratched") Nov. 2009 - St. James - £60,000 (advertised as "AU") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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