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Classic russian rarity coins 1700-1917


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So often can be seen at auctions, also internet auctions such a phrase

in coin description - "classic russian rarity".

I was wondering which coins can be called like this,

are these coins R1, R2 or R3 ?

Or only R4 coins can be called a "classic" ?

All opinions are welcome :ninja:

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The term is merely an adjective, which can have a broad spectrum of meaning. I think, in terms of auction descriptions, it is more of a marketing word than an indication of rarity.

 

You dont see "classic" written on slabs, or in any rarity tables, so any coin that is has been desirable for whatever reason, and been so over the years, could be described as such.

 

If you buy a coin at auction, which is described as "classic", could you return it because you discovered. once you received it, that it wasnt "classic"? see what I mean?

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classic

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just to make sure I got your meaning that it is used in speculative motive to help a sale

and in most is nothing to do with a coin rarity

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just to make sure I got your meaning that it is used in speculative motive to help a sale

and in most is nothing to do with a coin rarity

Nice try but that is not what squirell meant, I believe. I've waited for your "interpretation" of the previous posting and I got it ! :ninja:

"Classic rarity" is an object that is rare enough and popular enough to be advertised as such. That's it.

Do not try to 'add" your imaginary meaning to it.

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you are not squirrel and your personnel emotions against myself do not clear

a very interesting subject to me

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The term is merely an adjective, which can have a broad spectrum of meaning. I think, in terms of auction descriptions, it is more of a marketing word than an indication of rarity.

 

You dont see "classic" written on slabs, or in any rarity tables, so any coin that is has been desirable for whatever reason, and been so over the years, could be described as such.

 

If you buy a coin at auction, which is described as "classic", could you return it because you discovered. once you received it, that it wasnt "classic"? see what I mean?

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classic

besides its definition would you call coins graded R1 and up by Bitkin as a "classic" ( I would )

and how about coins which are less than R1, are they still be considered as "classic"

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So often can be seen at auctions, also internet auctions such a phrase

in coin description - "classic russian rarity".

I was wondering which coins can be called like this,

are these coins R1, R2 or R3 ?

Or only R4 coins can be called a "classic" ?

All opinions are welcome ;)

I don't think the term "classic Russian rarity" has a precise definition with respect to a rarity scale in numismatics.

 

But I think by parsing the term one can gain a reasonable understanding of the meaning.

 

First, it will be Russian.

 

Second, it will be rare (meaning that it is not located easily).

 

Thirdly, it will be of numismatic and/or historical importance or something which is of enduring interest to collectors, or of superior design to others in its class.

 

For Elizabeth, the Dassier portrait Rouble and Imperial might qualify.

 

Or perhaps original copper plate money.

 

Maybe a Constantine rouble.

 

Or an Avesta pyatak.

 

Or Napoleonic forgeries of Russian paper money.

 

Some people might even say that something which was never money would qualify. :ninja:

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As others have pointed out, there is no "standard" for what is a "classic rarity" and merely a "rare coin" (or even very rare coin). I interpret this phrase to mean a rarity which is commonly known and perceived as being rare. A Sestroretsk rouble would be a good example, as are most of the 19th century commemorative rouble coins. 1903 poltinas, OTOH, are rare, but I wouldn't say they are "classic" rarities.

 

It is all a matter of interpretation (and marketing :ninja: ).

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I don't think the term "classic Russian rarity" has a precise definition with respect to a rarity scale in numismatics.

 

But I think by parsing the term one can gain a reasonable understanding of the meaning.

 

First, it will be Russian.

 

Second, it will be rare (meaning that it is not located easily).

 

Thirdly, it will be of numismatic and/or historical importance or something which is of enduring interest to collectors, or of superior design to others in its class.

 

For Elizabeth, the Dassier portrait Rouble and Imperial might qualify.

 

Or perhaps original copper plate money.

 

Maybe a Constantine rouble.

 

Or an Avesta pyatak.

 

Or Napoleonic forgeries of Russian paper money.

 

Some people might even say that something which was never money would qualify. :ninja:

 

from your kindly presented samples of coins - all go over R2 or higher

what would be your opinion if any R1 coin can be considered as "classic russian rarity"

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from your kindly presented samples of coins - all go over R2 or higher

what would be your opinion if any R1 coin can be considered as "classic russian rarity"

Perhaps I'm failing to communicate clearly. When I said "I don't think the term "classic Russian rarity" has a precise definition with respect to a rarity scale in numismatics" I meant that I don't think that it can be tied to an R, RR, RRR etc. rating scale.

 

That is why I suggested parsing the term.

 

The examples offered were not intended to be an exclusive listing or even a comprehensive one. The examples cited were offered merely as ones which I thought you would recognize as meeting the stipulated criteria and which, I imagined, you were unlikely to dispute.

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from your kindly presented samples of coins - all go over R2 or higher

what would be your opinion if any R1 coin can be considered as "classic russian rarity"

 

Give us an example of an R1 coin that you would consider a "classic russian rarity" or the ones that you've seen in auction catalogs advertised as such.

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just to make sure I got your meaning that it is used in speculative motive to help a sale

and in most is nothing to do with a coin rarity

 

I meant what I said, and said what I meant.

 

Did you read link I posted?

 

I think that says it all. "Classical" is a matter of symantics, definitions, and interpretations.

 

Rarity is a matter of records, research, and mathematical statistics and probabilty.

 

Both are subject to the laws of the free market economy.

 

:ninja:

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Perhaps I'm failing to communicate clearly. When I said "I don't think the term "classic Russian rarity" has a precise definition with respect to a rarity scale in numismatics" I meant that I don't think that it can be tied to an R, RR, RRR etc. rating scale.

 

That is why I suggested parsing the term.

 

The examples offered were not intended to be an exclusive listing or even a comprehensive one. The examples cited were offered merely as ones which I thought you would recognize as meeting the stipulated criteria and which, I imagined, you were unlikely to dispute.

 

that is right - your samples under no dispute and are "classic", it is a little bit not what I want to figure out;

there are about a few hundred coins graded as R1,

if a coin R1 being offered for sale individually and bears a description that it is "classic russian rarity", do yuo think it is fare enough for a seller to conclude with such description in order to help a sale / or,

because a coin is R1 and it is a classic itself anyway

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that is right - your samples under no dispute and are "classic", it is a little bit not what I want to figure out;

there are about a few hundred coins graded as R1,

if a coin R1 being offered for sale individually and bears a description that it is "classic russian rarity", do yuo think it is fare enough for a seller to conclude with such description in order to help a sale / or,

because a coin is R1 and it is a classic itself anyway

 

It is time for you to , finally, give us all an example.

I guess I know what you are trying to achieve by discussing this trivial topic but will wait for you to confirm it.

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that is right - your samples under no dispute and are "classic", it is a little bit not what I want to figure out;

there are about a few hundred coins graded as R1,

if a coin R1 being offered for sale individually and bears a description that it is "classic russian rarity", do yuo think it is fare enough for a seller to conclude with such description in order to help a sale / or,

because a coin is R1 and it is a classic itself anyway

Here is a definition which might prove helpful for you.

 

Rarity is an elastic concept. Many people would say that the Dassier rouble is "rare", yet it appears for sale regularly, usually several times per year. It is fair to say that its rarity is enhanced by its popularity (BTW, it is rated "R1" by Bitkin), because it usually brings a strong price at auction.

 

On the other hand, consider the 1714-NDD copper kopeck. It is rated as "scarce" at best in any reference I can recall seeing. Yet I almost never see one offered for sale (this coin was even missing from the Brekke collection). Maybe this coin is easier to find in Russia than it is in the West, but my experience here is that it is quite difficult to locate.

 

I think most collectors would agree that Peter I copper coins are historically and numismatically important as a class of coins and they have been the subject of specialized interest as a quite complex series, so I suppose the 1714-NDD kopeck could reasonably be described as a "classic Russian rarity", even though I have never heard anyone describe it that way.

 

The 1909-S-VDB Lincoln cent could probably be described as a "classic American rarity" even though it is certainly not rare. But many collectors of US coins would consider such a coin a prized piece, perhaps even the crowning glory of their collection, because it is a very popular coin and always in demand.

 

Ioann III roubles (typically R1) or Peter III could reasonably be described as "classic Russian rarities" even though they show up quite often at auction but almost always bring very strong prices, simply because they ruled for such a short period and are therefore the rarest tsars to get.

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here is my counter example:

http://cgi.ebay.com/1725-Peter-the-Great-R...=item3a59b77a68

 

Note this "coin" is struck in "PURE CLASSIC PEWTER"

I dont know about you folks, but I like my pewter pure. and classic. :ninja:

 

I got Constanine I Pavlovich from this "classic" series, I also learned that Constantine is available in

different metal same seires ;)

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Here is a definition which might prove helpful for you.

 

Rarity is an elastic concept. Many people would say that the Dassier rouble is "rare", yet it appears for sale regularly, usually several times per year. It is fair to say that its rarity is enhanced by its popularity (BTW, it is rated "R1" by Bitkin), because it usually brings a strong price at auction.

 

On the other hand, consider the 1714-NDD copper kopeck. It is rated as "scarce" at best in any reference I can recall seeing. Yet I almost never see one offered for sale (this coin was even missing from the Brekke collection). Maybe this coin is easier to find in Russia than it is in the West, but my experience here is that it is quite difficult to locate.

 

I think most collectors would agree that Peter I copper coins are historically and numismatically important as a class of coins and they have been the subject of specialized interest as a quite complex series, so I suppose the 1714-NDD kopeck could reasonably be described as a "classic Russian rarity", even though I have never heard anyone describe it that way.

 

The 1909-S-VDB Lincoln cent could probably be described as a "classic American rarity" even though it is certainly not rare. But many collectors of US coins would consider such a coin a prized piece, perhaps even the crowning glory of their collection, because it is a very popular coin and always in demand.

 

Ioann III roubles (typically R1) or Peter III could reasonably be described as "classic Russian rarities" even though they show up quite often at auction but almost always bring very strong prices, simply because they ruled for such a short period and are therefore the rarest tsars to get.

thank you so much for above as a sample of your opinion but not as prove of help to myself, it is a discussion only :ninja:

using your good sample let say with Dassier ruble, which is indeed a "classic" one,

the majority of R1 coins are not even close to be considered as classic but can be called "classic"

because of a seller wanted;

it is interesting also that indeed "classic" coins get sold without term "classic"

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thank you so much for above as a sample of your opinion but not as prove of help to myself, it is a discussion only :ninja:

 

I'm not sure why it is not helpful, unless it is because what I am saying is not what you wish to hear.

 

Thank you for your reply.

 

I have nothing further to say on the matter.

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I'm not sure why it is not helpful, unless it is because what I am saying is not what you wish to hear.

Thank you for your reply.

I have nothing further to say on the matter.

 

your opinion is a strong and valuable (thank you again);

in addition, my opinion can be same as yours;

i am looking for opinioin not a "help";

your opinion is really appreciated :ninja:

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it is nothing wrong to point out that the silver coins rated R1

kindly mentioned by grinva1726 are

"Russian classic rarities" ;)

 

from a copper selection there are so many coins rated R1 so lets consider these:

R1- 5 kopeks 1764 SPM

R1- 5 kopeks 1767 SPM

R1- 5 kopeks 1788 SPM

 

can above coins be considered as "Russian classic rarities" :ninja:

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it is nothing wrong to point out that the silver coins rated R1

kindly mentioned by grinva1726 are

"Russian classic rarities" ;)

 

from a copper selection there are so many coins rated R1 so lets consider these:

R1- 5 kopeks 1764 SPM

R1- 5 kopeks 1767 SPM

R1- 5 kopeks 1788 SPM

 

can above coins be considered as "Russian classic rarities" :ninja:

 

To me ""Russian classic rarity" means that there would be many, many people who would wish to have it in their collection. And every time a coin like that comes on the market we all would be talking about it.

In the case of coins you mentioned - I do not want/need them. So you know what my answer is. If they were 1763 and 1765 with no mintmark - then YES!

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To me ""Russian classic rarity" means that there would be many, many people who would wish to have it in their collection. And every time a coin like that comes on the market we all would be talking about it.

In the case of coins you mentioned - I do not want/need them. So you know what my answer is. If they were 1763 and 1765 with no mintmark - then YES!

thank you so much for your respond, it means a lot to me :ninja:

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Greetings, I'm semi-retired and I'm just starting to go through my wife's (father and grandfather) collection of about 300 Russian imperial coins. Gold, silver, copper, a wide mix ranging from 1/2 kopecks to 10 rubles, 1752-1916. I'm neither 'forum' literate nor have I ever collected a single coin of any type. Can anyone recommend a book or reference work for a newbie? I'd like to start the task of understanding what we have. Thanks!

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Greetings, I'm semi-retired and I'm just starting to go through my wife's (father and grandfather) collection of about 300 Russian imperial coins. Gold, silver, copper, a wide mix ranging from 1/2 kopecks to 10 rubles, 1752-1916. I'm neither 'forum' literate nor have I ever collected a single coin of any type. Can anyone recommend a book or reference work for a newbie? I'd like to start the task of understanding what we have. Thanks!

 

I think that depends on how deeply you would like to get involved. You can by the Bitkin catalog, which is a popular if not the standard reference. It is a grand, and complex edition that can set you back $250.

If you are just interested in figuring out a value estimate of your coins, you can by the 2010 edition of the Conros price guide – which should not cost more than $40.

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