Rhino Posted March 7, 2010 Report Share Posted March 7, 2010 With all the recent discussion on the value of some imperial poltinniks, it got me thinking: What do you think the future holds for Russian coin collecting? I plan on keeping my collection in the family and passing it down to another generation - what do you think 5, 10, 20, even 50 years from now will look like? Will the prices keep rising? Will the market stay hot, or will prices go down? Will Soviet coins become more popular? All opinions are welcomed, I'd like to see what the more experienced collectors on here think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted March 8, 2010 Report Share Posted March 8, 2010 With all the recent discussion on the value of some imperial poltinniks, it got me thinking: What do you think the future holds for Russian coin collecting? I plan on keeping my collection in the family and passing it down to another generation - what do you think 5, 10, 20, even 50 years from now will look like? Will the prices keep rising? Will the market stay hot, or will prices go down? Will Soviet coins become more popular? All opinions are welcomed, I'd like to see what the more experienced collectors on here think Unless Russia experiences profound economic instability -- e.g., a much bigger recession than we have seen up to now or some disastrous political upheaval -- I think prices will eventually stabilize more or less at present levels or else rise even more. Most of the buyers of high-priced material sold in Western auction houses are in Russia, it seems, and there is still a drain from West to East of good coins. Prices paid for highly sought-after coins have always been about 30% - 50% (???) higher in Russia than in Western markets, I believe. Since it is illegal to export older coins from Russia (perhaps just without special permits) but perfectly legal to import them, this "coin drain" will continue. At any rate, as with any other coins, the higher the grade, the better chances are of appreciation in value. More people will continue to collect higher grades, and they become scarcer and scarcer, i.e. more valuable. Values of lower-grade coins will get sucked into this trend; recent rises in precious metal values have also had a great influence on the value of lower-grade gold and silver coins. Just my 2 kopeiki's worth of advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maya Posted March 8, 2010 Report Share Posted March 8, 2010 Unless Russia experiences profound economic instability -- e.g., a much bigger recession than we have seen up to now or some disastrous political upheaval -- I think prices will eventually stabilize more or less at present levels or else rise even more. Most of the buyers of high-priced material sold in Western auction houses are in Russia, it seems, and there is still a drain from West to East of good coins. Prices paid for highly sought-after coins have always been about 30% - 50% (???) higher in Russia than in Western markets, I believe. Since it is illegal to export older coins from Russia (perhaps just without special permits) but perfectly legal to import them, this "coin drain" will continue. At any rate, as with any other coins, the higher the grade, the better chances are of appreciation in value. More people will continue to collect higher grades, and they become scarcer and scarcer, i.e. more valuable. Values of lower-grade coins will get sucked into this trend; recent rises in precious metal values have also had a great influence on the value of lower-grade gold and silver coins. Just my 2 kopeiki's worth of advice. I think you are right Bob. Unless Russian laws change and it becomes easier to export coins, and as long as Russian collectors continue to outbid everybody else at auctions, eventually, the only coins left outside of Russia will be in private hands, and any movement will be in one direction only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhino Posted March 8, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2010 That is such a shame, I wasn't aware that there was a coin drain going on I doubt that Russia will relax its laws ever, so that trend should continue then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE MOULDING Posted March 8, 2010 Report Share Posted March 8, 2010 I think you are right Bob. Unless Russian laws change and it becomes easier to export coins, and as long as Russian collectors continue to outbid everybody else at auctions, eventually, the only coins left outside of Russia will be in private hands, and any movement will be in one direction only. At least in theory! It's interesting to see coins sold in Russian Auctions appear a couple of years later in a German auction. I wonder if once a coin gets out the russian authorities aren't going to care. Seems risky though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackdrone Posted March 8, 2010 Report Share Posted March 8, 2010 I think the worn and commercial coins price will go up even more. (not russian new collectors won't get rare and nice coins) Becouse the russians takes the rare and nice coins to home. Some coins 2000-10000 pieces produced? What is it at world? Nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbq2 Posted March 9, 2010 Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 My prediction - All coins that we (in the West) are losing to Russia will soon be replaced by shiny and attractive replicas from China! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saor Alba Posted March 9, 2010 Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 I remember the good old days when coins left Russia and were not high priced. Gold Nikolai II coins traded at a percentage above spot and BU Tsarist and early USSR coins were reasonably priced. But then in the USSR I never bothered to delve into more than 18th century denezhkii, and never saw silver or gold other than someone telling me about having it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbq2 Posted March 9, 2010 Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 I remember the good old days when coins left Russia and were not high priced. Gold Nikolai II coins traded at a percentage above spot and BU Tsarist and early USSR coins were reasonably priced. But then in the USSR I never bothered to delve into more than 18th century denezhkii, and never saw silver or gold other than someone telling me about having it. I recall early 90's. You could get gold poltinas for $100. Of course back then I did not have $100 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhino Posted March 9, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 My prediction - All coins that we (in the West) are losing to Russia will soon be replaced by shiny and attractive replicas from China! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyal Citizen Posted March 9, 2010 Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 ...eventually, ... any movement will be in one direction only. I do not agree with this conclusion. Economic development and historical trends tell us that "one-direction-movement " is only possible for a relatively short period of time. Even now, if you look at the European auctions (as Steve mentioned above ) you may find dozens of coins that were purchased by Russian dealers in the US and Russia and then put up for sale in Germany, for example. Why ? Just same old economic law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saor Alba Posted March 9, 2010 Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 I recall early 90's. You could get gold poltinas for $100. Of course back then I did not have $100 Yes I remember when 5 rubles coins traded at about $40-45 each and 10 rubles for $95 or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhino Posted March 9, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 Yes I remember when 5 rubles coins traded at about $40-45 each and 10 rubles for $95 or so. These prices are just shocking to me I started collecting in 2009, and I couldn't even imagine the prices were ever under 3 digits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russia_coins Posted March 9, 2010 Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 Personnaly I was able to import old silver and copper coins from Russia (2007, 2008). I've just putted some in my wallet other in my luggage That's it. I remember having incredible prices on Alex III polushka of 1893 for only 200 roubles (less than 8$) in Moscow ! I bought like 10 of them right away. Later I've sold some of them for over 200$ each. In general, copper coins are much more cheap in Russia then in the West. I bought several siberian kopeks, Catherine II pyataks, Pavel's kopeks, dengas for peanuts (hungreds of roubles). The choice was amazing, hungreds of dealers. I've spent 2 days to see everything. However all the silver and gold coins were extremely overpriced, for instance a VF 25 kopek 1894 was priced 5000$ ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saor Alba Posted March 9, 2010 Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 It was really fun to collect coins in USSR and then in the first few years of Russian federation because the authorities still prosecuted you for trading in gold and silver if they caught you and were not taking "tips" - "to insure proper service". I was never too concerned about the coppers I had, even the 18th century denezhkii, but gold and silver - let's say this highly off the record. But still I managed to find some nice coins - especially Nikolai II silver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted March 9, 2010 Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 Even now, if you look at the European auctions (as Steve mentioned above ) you may find dozens of coins that were purchased by Russian dealers in the US and Russia and then put up for sale in Germany, for example. Maybe some Russian dealers buy for their own personal account in the West and then store the coins outside Russia? The coins can always be returned to Russia at any time. But bringing them back out again could be a problem, so storing them outside Russia might not be such a bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE MOULDING Posted March 9, 2010 Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 Maybe some Russian dealers buy for their own personal account in the West and then store the coins outside Russia? The coins can always be returned to Russia at any time. But bringing them back out again could be a problem, so storing them outside Russia might not be such a bad idea. I wasn't talking about storage, but was referring to coins that were sold at an auction house inside Russia, and then appeared in auction houses in Germany a couple of years later. Was the coin _actually_ in Russia when first sold...I would think so. Is it possible to photograph and list them without bringing them in...possible, but unlikely. No, I think these examples were actually coins that got out, perhaps in a diplomatic bag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saor Alba Posted March 9, 2010 Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 Where there is a will, there is a way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbq2 Posted March 10, 2010 Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 Where there is a will, there is a way. Very true! Laws or no laws, I have bought and received coins from Russian sellers on eBay. But at the same time, I had an unpleasant experience a long long time ago, before I knew that there were any such laws, and was surprised when they took a handful of coins away from me at the airport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhino Posted March 10, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 Very true! Laws or no laws, I have bought and received coins from Russian sellers on eBay. But at the same time, I had an unpleasant experience a long long time ago, before I knew that there were any such laws, and was surprised when they took a handful of coins away from me at the airport. I, too, bought coins from Russia on ebay. I guess when it's more anonymous like that, when someone can hide behind a username and send coins from their house, they get around these laws. Your airport incident - was that for coins that you purchased and tried to leave the country with when you were visiting there or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbq2 Posted March 10, 2010 Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 I, too, bought coins from Russia on ebay. I guess when it's more anonymous like that, when someone can hide behind a username and send coins from their house, they get around these laws. Your airport incident - was that for coins that you purchased and tried to leave the country with when you were visiting there or something? Yeah, I was just starting out. I was a teenager at the time, and I bought a handful of cheap coins in Moscow. When I was going back, I just had them in my backpack, and at Sherementievo 2, customs officers found them, made a big stink out of it, filed some paperwork and took them away. I got them back in the end, my relatives had to go to the airport, and pay some fee to get them back. This was in the early 90s though. Don't know what it is like these days. I do know that you can import antiques into Russia without paying any duty, that's suppose to encourage people bringing them in. I don't understand why Russian government still cares whether there are more or less antique items in Russia? Do they hope to expropriate them some day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saor Alba Posted March 10, 2010 Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 The customs people in the airport tend to find stuff by stereotyping people. When I was in Russia I must have not met their stereotypes - because they were busy going after the rich old American ladies with all the baubles on their necks. Actually quite a bit of my Russian collection of 19th century ruble coins and quite a few of the Nikolai II coppers came from Russia in the 1990's. Of course they were all older than 50 years or before 1945 or whatever the law is. Ivan the customs crook was not on watch that day or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackdrone Posted March 10, 2010 Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 What is the situation with the Russian coin not have been striked in Russia? Like Paris, or Osaka striked. Or the 1916 1/2/3 Deutchs kopeks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted March 10, 2010 Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 What is the situation with the Russian coin not have been striked in Russia? Like Paris, or Osaka striked. Or the 1916 1/2/3 Deutchs kopeks? Good question for the debate team, but have fun explaining that one to the customs officer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted March 10, 2010 Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 Good question for the debate team, but have fun explaining that one to the customs officer! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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