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and some weirdos collect dead insects AND coins... ;)

 

That huge bug better be R3 or R4 !!! because i dont ever want to come across one, unless it has a nail thru it! :ninja:

 

I have a few fossil trilobite bugs. (dont collect, just have lots of wierd stuff) I suppose those are the "novodels" of the insect world?

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Very nice pictures everyone. I had a couple of fossils that I picked from field trips but I lost them somehow when I was moving. Must have thrown them out as mere rocks :ninja:

 

I have to insist that novodels can be collectable. Don't be mistaken - just because they are restrikes doesn't mean that they are cheap. Taking the example of the famous US1804 King of Siam set. I'm sure you know that went for a record price. Who knows what it would bring now.

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  • 1 month later...
Congratulations on the acquisition of the lovely (although pricey) coins.

 

I am surprised that NGC could make such an error as mislabeling the denga as 1K.

 

 

 

Isn't a Denga 1/2 Kopek?

I think that's how they listed it in their cert verification and there was only one graded(this particular one)

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Isn't a Denga 1/2 Kopek?

I think that's how they listed it in their cert verification and there was only one graded(this particular one)

 

yes it is - denga is 1/2 kopek, but not kopek (1 kopek);

the picture showed in this thread is signed that it is a kopek novodel from Hesselgesser collection,

however Brekke number 377 is correct and corresponds to Denga :ninja:

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  • 2 years later...

I'd like to add my 5 cents here:

Fact 1: No lawless activity of others will ever change the definition and the nature of Novodel in spite any inappropriate use of this word.

Example: One can call a piece of paper with "20 dollars" written on it - "$20", but irrespective of that the piece of paper will always be a piece of paper that you could not buy anything with, while with a $20 note you can always buy $20 worth of goods. If somebody somewhere fooled someone, and paid for the same goods with a piece of paper calling it $20 and that becomes known to others, it doesn't mean that they will stop accepting $20 notes, or that they will be exchanging $20 note for only lets say $10 worth of products. It would mean that they will be more careful next time, checking every $20 note for authenticity from now on...

Same with Novodels. The official limited strike with improved dies or limited re-strike with original dies makes the resulting coins Very Rare, Extremely Desirable and sexy.

Fact 2: Generally Novodel coins are rare and a lot more expensive than original coins rare coins. Due to the fact of they small numbers and their extremely outstanding condition.

Fact 3: Practically no one starts their collection with Novodels, simply because due to inexperience they can not tell Novodel from a copy, however skillful copy or counterfeit and because their all believe in their luck and represent an easy target for con-masters who sell them fakes. Unless you are VERY reach and can afford buying coins from some of the most respected auction houses (forget eBay)...

 

Here a few examples of Novodels that I found for your pleasure so you understand what I am talking about:

http://www.numismat....iew.cgi?id=1264

http://www.numismat....iew.cgi?id=1262

http://www.numismat....iew.cgi?id=1268

http://www.numismat.ru/cgi-bin2/cat_view.cgi?id=1273

and you saw the denga already...

 

My respect to Novodel collectors. The chance is that we probably have none of them here on this forum apart from Halfdollar. These collectors are usually very mature and professional collectors / dealers... :mf_napoleon: I am scared to ask how much Halfdollar paid for these two. I know these are the old posts, but worth keeping them...

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My respect to Novodel collectors. The chance is that we probably have none of them here on this forum apart from Halfdollar. These collectors are usually very mature and professional collectors / dealers... :mf_napoleon: I am scared to ask how much Halfdollar paid for these two. I know these are the old posts, but worth keeping them...

 

Apart from myself, members of this forum are "mature and professional collectors / dealers".

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Apart from myself, members of this forum are "mature and professional collectors / dealers".

I mean mature not in the age or collection sense, but in a professional collection sense, meaning that it is their profession to deal numismatic artifacts or collect them for the museum collection. Plus, and that is definitely mistake of my mind set, I was talking about Russian Novodels only. It is possible to have an odd Russian Novodel coin in your collection, but to collect them and actually to have a collection of Novodel coins is extremely rare. My apologies if I offended anyone, it wasn't my intention. I know many people that collect Russian coins for a very long time and have beautiful collections, but have not a single Novodel, and it's not because they don't like them. Some just choose not to care about Novodel coins until they come across them, or even if they do as these coins too beautiful and spoil the look of the rest of the collection somewhat as they may over shine even the most precious pieces. :yes: On the other hand not to have them in your collection is not something that would make your collection less valuable, particularly if you only collect items that were released into circulation. So, if you are a mature professional collector or just a serious one, my respect to you too! I am in this category as well, and certainly I don't feel disrespected. We all are :winner_first_h4h: ... Cheers!

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Just remember that novodels were official products of Russian Government mints; their dies were engraved by government engravers and they were issued under Russian Government authority. They are in no way fakes or counterfeits. They were eagerly sought by wealthy contemporary collectors who, in many cases, were not able to obtain original coins of those designs or were not able to find original coins in collectible condition. Novodels fall into the broad category of collector objects not destined for commerce such as all proof coins, pattern coins, medals, buttons, etc. But more specifically, Russian Novodels are just as much a part of Russian numismatic history as the 1804 US silver dollar is a part of American numismatic history, since it, too, is a novodel. By the way, the 1804 dollar is one of the most famous and popular American "coins" even though it is a reproduction produced from around 1834 to the 1850's in several emissions. It typically sells for millions of dollars.

 

If one is a student of Russian Numismatic history, then the possible collection of novodels is a natural outcome of that study as is the possible collection of wire money or beard tokens. In fact associating a coin to a specific date is only a recent phenomenon. Ancient coins were, in many cases, minted over many years, with no definite indication of their date of production except a rough indication when a monarch might be mentioned or depicted. Many dies were used, and in most cases one cannot tie a coin to a specific year. The Romans were better about dating, but it is still an inexact science to associate a specific date with a coin.

 

I mention this because it makes no sense to me for some to denigrate the collection of a whole class of numismatic objects just because they were not struck for commerce or because the date on the coin might not coincide with the date of manufacture.

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Here are a couple of so-called Novodels I bought at cheap prices. I knew these weren't the real deal, but they were interesting. The Siberian 2 Kopek from 1763 is a curious piece since there were no records of this denomination being struck in 1763. I figured it was either a modern fantasy issue, or it was spurious. The 1764 Grivnnik is one I picked up over a year ago. Again, I knew it wasn't original, but it was a good filler, since the originals are extremely rare,and waaaay out of my price range. Still, I hope people find these images helpful, as to know what phony Novodels look like.

 

SIBERIAREGIONAL2Kopek1763_zpsb53b9041.jpg

SIBERIA (REGIONAL)~2 Kopek 1763

 

SIBERIAREGIONALGrivnik1764COPY.jpg

SIBERIA (REGIONAL)~Grivnnik 1764

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Here are a couple of so-called Novodels I bought at cheap prices...

Unfortunately, this is a recent trend making quality replicas / counterfeits for profit. Something that is very difficult to stop, but should be outlawed. Any replica must bare a mark indicating that it is a replica. :yes:

Just remember that novodels were official products of Russian Government mints...

Can not agree more... ;)

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Unfortunately, this is a recent trend making quality replicas / counterfeits for profit. Something that is very difficult to stop, but should be outlawed. Any replica must bare a mark indicating that it is a replica. :yes:

 

 

Agreed. The 2 Kopek is a very nice looking replica, but that's what bothered me. Although I knew this was not an original coin, or Novodel, someone who is less knowledgeable might get tricked into paying a small (or not so small) fortune for coins like this one. I only bought this as a curiosity piece for my collection.

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