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1771 Russian Coin encased in unknown slab...???


Rhino
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I was recently offered a 1771 5 Kopek (EM) by a friend who bought a small lot of coins from an estate. The thing that bothers me is that it is in a weird case that says at the top "Millenium Coin Collection - 18th Century". I uploaded a large picture:

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v662/sub...alxtac/case.jpg

 

I know this picture is too far away and too dark, but what is this case?? Never heard oa millenium collection... But on the bottom of one of the case's sides is a small copyright sign and the letters "FM" next to it... maybe Franklin Mint? I'm just shooting in the dark.

 

Any info would help. Including the typical value for this coin. Thanks :ninja:

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Just found this on ebay:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/MILLENNIUM-COIN-COLLEC...=item1c0c9830f7

 

Looks like it came from this cabinet...

 

And then some are sold individually:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/MILLENNIUM-COIN-COLLEC...=item5638c41939

 

Would you assume these are replicas? Fakes? I mean you can easily get some common genuine specimens from each century and slab them like this, no?

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Just found this on ebay:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/MILLENNIUM-COIN-COLLEC...=item1c0c9830f7

 

Looks like it came from this cabinet...

 

And then some are sold individually:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/MILLENNIUM-COIN-COLLEC...=item5638c41939

 

Would you assume these are replicas? Fakes? I mean you can easily get some common genuine specimens from each century and slab them like this, no?

 

Look like common coins in pretty packaging, sold as a novelty gift.

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Not too unreasonable. Maybe a bit higher at VF...$20.

 

Not bad... I figured I'd take the risk and buy it from him since it was so tempting, I paid $8 with shipping :ninja:

 

I've never had a Russian coin from that era, my oldest one currently is a 1902, so it was definitely an impulse purchase for what seems to be a fair coin. Thanks a lot for all the help guys!!!

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After someone notified me that these cases can actually be opened, I took the coin out :ninja: (turns out it opens in a way similar to a cap on a prescription bottle). I took some pictures so that you guys can take a look and tell me IS IT REAL?

 

Many of you will wonder what bothers me about the coin or what makes me think it's not real, but actually there isn't anything besides the fact that I am an amateur and do not trust myself yet to evaluate the authenticity of coins. I compared my eagle design to the Bitkin 1770-1777 pattern, and the eagle's wing design matches (it's different in the 1780-1796 ones) , but I still would like someone with a lot more experience to authenticate it. Here are some large pictures of all angles of the coin and zoomed in portions of the entire thing:

 

Monogram side:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v662/sub.../IMG_2110-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v662/sub.../IMG_2117-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v662/sub.../IMG_2116-1.jpg

 

Eagle side:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v662/sub.../IMG_2111-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v662/sub.../IMG_2113-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v662/sub.../IMG_2114-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v662/sub.../IMG_2125-1.jpg

 

Edge:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v662/sub.../IMG_2122-1.jpg

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You have a perfectly normal 1771EM 5 Kopecks. Welcome to 18th Century copper :ninja:

 

Best,

 

Steve

 

Fantastic. Thanks for your help ;)

 

How often are fake coppers seen on places like eBay? That's where I get an overwhelming majority of my coins, since there are no dealers within a reasonable distance of me.

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Fantastic. Thanks for your help :ninja:

 

How often are fake coppers seen on places like eBay? That's where I get an overwhelming majority of my coins, since there are no dealers within a reasonable distance of me.

 

Sadly, quite a few fakes show up on ebay. Get a good book on Russian copper, Brekke and the Brekke supplement, which has a section on fakes, both come highly recommended. Also, sign up for the Russian Numismatic Society, and you get newsletters which are very informative, have great articles, and also publish a short summary of any new fakes that are discovered.

 

The good news is many fakes are badly done, and if find a coin on ebay that is listed as scarce, rare, R, R1, R2, etc depending on the book you use, or isnt in any book, (a fantasy), be suspicious. Compare with other known examples, look closely, and use your judgement . I can speak for myself, that i have picked up a fake or two.... but was lucky that the seller was reputable and took it back. If an ebay seller offers no refund, and claims not to be expert etc, dont bother to bid. ;)

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Sadly, quite a few fakes show up on ebay. Get a good book on Russian copper, Brekke and the Brekke supplement, which has a section on fakes, both come highly recommended. Also, sign up for the Russian Numismatic Society, and you get newsletters which are very informative, have great articles, and also publish a short summary of any new fakes that are discovered.

 

The good news is many fakes are badly done, and if find a coin on ebay that is listed as scarce, rare, R, R1, R2, etc depending on the book you use, or isnt in any book, (a fantasy), be suspicious. Compare with other known examples, look closely, and use your judgement . I can speak for myself, that i have picked up a fake or two.... but was lucky that the seller was reputable and took it back. If an ebay seller offers no refund, and claims not to be expert etc, dont bother to bid. :ninja:

Great advice! ;)

 

I sent scans from the Brekke/Bakken supplement of the 1762 10k fake/fantasy that was sold in the most recent UBS auction to their numismatic department. It has been three weeks, but no reply so far. I also gave them a piece of my mind about all the cleaned coins which were not described as such, probably making myself very obnoxious in the process... ;)

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Sadly, quite a few fakes show up on ebay. Get a good book on Russian copper, Brekke and the Brekke supplement, which has a section on fakes, both come highly recommended. Also, sign up for the Russian Numismatic Society, and you get newsletters which are very informative, have great articles, and also publish a short summary of any new fakes that are discovered.

 

The good news is many fakes are badly done, and if find a coin on ebay that is listed as scarce, rare, R, R1, R2, etc depending on the book you use, or isnt in any book, (a fantasy), be suspicious. Compare with other known examples, look closely, and use your judgement . I can speak for myself, that i have picked up a fake or two.... but was lucky that the seller was reputable and took it back. If an ebay seller offers no refund, and claims not to be expert etc, dont bother to bid. :ninja:

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Sadly, quite a few fakes show up on ebay. Get a good book on Russian copper, Brekke and the Brekke supplement, which has a section on fakes, both come highly recommended. Also, sign up for the Russian Numismatic Society, and you get newsletters which are very informative, have great articles, and also publish a short summary of any new fakes that are discovered.

 

The good news is many fakes are badly done, and if find a coin on ebay that is listed as scarce, rare, R, R1, R2, etc depending on the book you use, or isnt in any book, (a fantasy), be suspicious. Compare with other known examples, look closely, and use your judgement . I can speak for myself, that i have picked up a fake or two.... but was lucky that the seller was reputable and took it back. If an ebay seller offers no refund, and claims not to be expert etc, dont bother to bid. :ninja:

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Sadly, quite a few fakes show up on ebay. Get a good book on Russian copper, Brekke and the Brekke supplement, which has a section on fakes, both come highly recommended. Also, sign up for the Russian Numismatic Society, and you get newsletters which are very informative, have great articles, and also publish a short summary of any new fakes that are discovered.

 

The good news is many fakes are badly done, and if find a coin on ebay that is listed as scarce, rare, R, R1, R2, etc depending on the book you use, or isnt in any book, (a fantasy), be suspicious. Compare with other known examples, look closely, and use your judgement . I can speak for myself, that i have picked up a fake or two.... but was lucky that the seller was reputable and took it back. If an ebay seller offers no refund, and claims not to be expert etc, dont bother to bid. :ninja:

 

Thanks for the advice. Is it usually the rarer coins that get faked? Or should I also be on the lookout for more common coins? For example, just today I noticed a 1870's 5 Kopek that seems ok... Do those get faked too? Not sure how desperate our Chinese friends get.

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Thanks for the advice. Is it usually the rarer coins that get faked? Or should I also be on the lookout for more common coins? For example, just today I noticed a 1870's 5 Kopek that seems ok... Do those get faked too? Not sure how desperate our Chinese friends get.

 

It's extremely rare, in my experience, to see fakes of the common coppers. Other than to practice, what's the point? I would agree that generally the rarer the coin the higher the possibility it's fake. If, as Squirrel says, it's Scarce or higher, then be more careful. Learn about the coins and enjoy them but don't let "is it fake" worries detract from that experience.

 

Best,

 

Steve

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