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My Baroque kopeck from Mr. Elmen arrived!


bobh
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Here it is (lot 334 from the last auction):

 

1756-СПБ overstruck on earlier type:

RUSSIA_1756_Baroque_Kopeck_obv.sized.jpg

RUSSIA_1756_Baroque_Kopeck_edge.sized.jpg

RUSSIA_1756_Baroque_Kopeck_rev.sized.jpg

 

Unfortunately, the "minor rim nick" is quite prominent ... and obviously recent, because it shows some very shiny copper: :ninja:

RUSSIA_1756_Baroque_Kopeck_rim_nick.jpg

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and I am guessing that catalog description did not mention that rim nick...

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and I am guessing that catalog description did not mention that rim nick...

The catalog description says "minor rim nick" ... but how much room for interpretation is there for "minor"?

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The catalog description says "minor rim nick" ... but how much room for interpretation is there for "minor"?

 

"minor" as in not done by an ax. Then, it would be moderate, unless the coin is cut in half... However, the coin is still nice. Rim nick or not, it does have some resale value. How much did you win it for?

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"minor" as in not done by an ax. Then, it would be moderate, unless the coin is cut in half...

:ninja:

 

However, the coin is still nice. Rim nick or not, it does have some resale value. How much did you win it for?

It's no secret ... $375.

 

Of course, it is very nice WRT detail, surfaces ... and it's genuine, and it is scarce! But as with all nice coins, the nicer they are, the more distracting such things become. The 1804-EM 5K coin I won from the Tom Bakken sale has a deep planchet flaw in the rim which is much bigger than the "minor nick" on this one. However, it is obvious that this was not due to damage, but merely according to the quality standards of the way coins were produced in those days. As such, it does not detract from the coin's value in the least -- if anything, it enhances its "genuineness", IMHO. ;)

 

Who knows, maybe the owner of this coin before the damage paid much more for it than I did?

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The catalog description says "minor rim nick" ... but how much room for interpretation is there for "minor"?

 

minor rim nick ??

minor in what, - in size ?? but major to be a problem coin !!

how about a recent to a cataloger rim nick??

from your pic #3 it looks like it is a fresh cut - I would try to return it :ninja:

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Are you thinking of going after the other dates and mm's?

 

I would not start by trying to find a 1757 mmd first. :ninja:

 

As to the coin:

 

If not for the cut, the price would be great. With the fresh cut, would still be able to sell on ebay for a close amt.

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i think it is a very pleasing coin, congrats.

Its not a coin one can find every day, to be sure.

Are you thinking of going after the other dates and mm's?

Thanks, Josh! ;)

 

The series is short enough that it might be tempting ... but all are pretty scarce! :ninja:

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Thanks for your comments, everyone. It is reassuring to know that defects such as this rim nick will not completely ruin a rare coin's value. It is extremely hard to find one with that much detail on it.

 

:ninja: (singing: "I've grown accustomed to your face...")

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Thanks for your comments, everyone. It is reassuring to know that defects such as this rim nick will not completely ruin a rare coin's value. It is extremely hard to find one with that much detail on it.

 

:ninja: (singing: "I've grown accustomed to your face...")

 

The coin is not too bad. I think the rim nick wouldn't detract much from the value of this overall pretty nice coin.

This is not a Nicholas II rouble after all.

Don't worry, be happy. ;) Sigi

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I think the item should be returned, because the discrepancy between the description and the actual condition of the coin is obvious. A fresh wound is not the same as a minor nick.

 

+1

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I think the item should be returned, because the discrepancy between the description and the actual condition of the coin is obvious. A fresh wound is not the same as a minor nick.

Standing on your principles is all fine and good, but realistically speaking, how likely is it that another coin of this caliber and condition will come on the market anytime soon? :ninja:

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Standing on your principles is all fine and good, but realistically speaking, how likely is it that another coin of this caliber and condition will come on the market anytime soon? :ninja:

When it comes to collecting the older coins, one needs to be somewhat forgiving of flaws and imperfections. There is no point in demanding "MS-69" if the finest known example is VF. People can't collect this stuff the way they collect Morgan Dollars and anyone who tries to do that will end up with a very tiny collection indeed and feeling very frustrated.

 

I think Maya has asked the question that goes straight to the heart of the matter: How many better examples have you seen lately? (Yes, I know that such better coins exist, but how many such originals do you see offered these days?).

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Standing on your principles is all fine and good, but realistically speaking, how likely is it that another coin of this caliber and condition will come on the market anytime soon? :ninja:

 

This is a valid point, of course. I would not like to be caught in this dilemma.

 

Yet finding a similar coin is not impossible. I closely watch only a few major auction houses and here are three coins (of the same year, the same mint and also struck over a cross-type 5 kopeck coin) that were auctioned in 2009: Kuenker 157, Lot 6166, and Kuenker 150, Lots 2379 and 2380. It is likely that there were even more.

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every one/second major worldwide auction has these type of coins -

each auction house in Russia these days has these types -

plany of them -

I believe that an initial question was about a fresh cut -

yes, a cut is fresh, and shiny, and should have been described not as it was ("minor")

and another part of question was if it is a problem coin -

yes, it is!

for some folks it is not, so you can keep going accumulating a problem collection,

again for some folks,

but not for the rest! :ninja:

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every one/second major worldwide auction has these type of coins -

each auction house in Russia these days has these types -

plany of them -

I believe that an initial question was about a fresh cut -

yes, a cut is fresh, and shiny, and should have been described not as it was ("minor")

and another part of question was if it is a problem coin -

yes, it is!

for some folks it is not, so you can keep going accumulating a problem collection,

again for some folks,

but not for the rest! :ninja:

 

May I remind you, ladies and gentlemen, that we are not in Russia?

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May I remind you, ladies and gentlemen, that we are not in Russia?

a substance of this post is if this a problem coin - yest it is :ninja:

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A lot of coins are dug up nowadays. A lot of them have shovel marks. (that is the only explanation I can find for the nick) Look at the field – sometimes there is a scratch which continues into the field from the cut.

 

You can certainly obtain an XF+ specimen for under $1500, or an Unc. coin for much more :ninja: – but, these are not rare coins by any means. Even 1755 no m/m with net edge started appearing regularly (those damn diggers…) The type in general appears very seldom in XF+ condition, and getting one of those is a prize.

 

It is YOUR decision on what to do with the coin. I am not sure you would be able to return it even if you wanted it – after all, there was a rim nick in the description. It is true, however, that the issue of “minor” vs “not so minor” is debatable. I do not think this is minor, but who cares what I think…

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Some say coin collecting is a process full of struggle and pain. As a result, we should have coins in our collection that give us positive emotions. If some do not - get rid of them. Plenty of times I had situations where some of my coins were giving me grief (something wrong with the coin, I do not like the person from whom I bought the coin, I feel that I was taken in the deal, etc.) and if I could not come to terms with the feeling - the coin was gone. So it is up to each individual to evaluate their emotions towards the object and make a decission.

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