DAJ Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Thanks much for the tip. Found another one, also somewhat damaged and paid too much for it. Will watch and see what this does. I also found an 1839 one ruble that is an old NGC grade 62. Am told that value can be increased by cross-grading to PCGS. Any experience with this? I paid a lot for this one too, for better or worse. Cheers and thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gxseries Posted June 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Wow, you must have been doing some mad hunting there, DAJ. I'm not too sure what is spurring you to find Borodin rubles, but best of luck there. Most probably if you have an old NGC grade 62, the grade might be quite strict. As well as recent infomation tells, it seems that a fair amount of Borodin rubles are minted in PROOF-LIKE quality, so you will never know what PCGS will think of your coin. Mine most certainly have traces of proof-like surfaces left. Now you honestly make me regret not buying a Borodin PROOF ruble which was on sale here a few years ago for just mere 500usd I opted to have the crappy 1834 proof ruble that I have at the moment... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAJ Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 What a collection you must have. You stick to Russian? Apparently the hottest coins around. Best sources? I do not like auctions, and that seems to be where the action is. A crappy proof 1834 sounds like an oxymoron to me. Might sit tight on PCGS. Maybe it is not as good as I had thought. Hear their service is not the best anyway. I also like Polish coins, about 1818 to 1824 or whatever, that feature Alexander. Also hot coins. You bought at the right time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gxseries Posted June 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Yes DAJ, you can check my Russian coin collection at omnicoin, http://www.omnicoin.com/user_view.aspx?id=gxseries The last time I counted, I remember it exceeded more than 400 different types... You can say that it was actually a serious lack of souviners while I was there in Russia that caused me a huge interest in collecting such coins. Indeed Alexsander I was very popular but too shy to appear on coinages. There were several trial coins that featured him. Here are my two examples of COPY trial coins that could have been in circulation: and It is indeed true that Alexsander I did appear in the Polish coinages, as well as the trial Brussels (or was it the french?) nickel coins Here is one currently on auction on molotok: http://molotok.ru/catalog/view_item.php?id_sell=12005152 I've made a scan of all Alexsander I images on coins. Most of them are excessively rare. http://rapidshare.de/files/23331327/alexsander.zip.html And finally... since Alexsander I is so famous... he is even featured in current commemorative coin too!!! http://www.cbr.ru/eng/bank-notes_coins/Bas...t_num=5115-0030 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAJ Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Amazing. Awesome. Thanks so much for showing me. It is bookmarked. Alexander is my guy. The shyness thing is frustrating, thus the interest in Borodino and Poland. I surmise that you speak Russian? Would you feel comfortable buying from that Rusian site? Do you continue to actively collect? As has been mentioned, I have been burned so much, I am only into TPG coins now - and don't trust much of anything. Those platinum coins were beauties and the highly regarded dealer took them back, after purchases of many years ago. He disagrees with NCG and says he is often an outside consultant for them - but then says that theirs is the final word and that he will have the coins melted down. Again, he is the guy who told me to go there in the first place. So not only did I lose the coins, but also lost substantial appreication in value over those years. Have to get over it. I would guess the coins should have appreciated about four times over the period I had them. Having said that all of that, the coin listed is about top on my list of next purchases. thoughts on authenticity and buying on such an auction? A pleasure and thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gxseries Posted June 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2006 I speak some, but not an awful amount of Russian. Regarding about that auction site, I suggest that you should read this thread as there were some discussions about it. http://www.coinpeople.com/Molotokru-has-an...oins-t9225.html As for the Polish Gold coin, I suggest not to be rash with it! Perhaps if you were here earlier, you would have got an example But nevertheless, you should check out with Clark Smith, a reputable dealer, from time to time http://www.coinvault.com He did have two examples for sale in the past - so let's hope it will pop up one day. Or alternatively email him and ask about it (And just when I checked - he sold a PF-64 3 ruble platinum coin ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAJ Posted June 18, 2006 Report Share Posted June 18, 2006 I need to be in touch with Smith - but again not being rash is a good idea. Plus nothing much comes up quickly - but then you see him quickly move that platinum rouble. http://www.northeastcoin.com/ looks to be a pretty good place. Do you worry about slabbing and authenticity when you purchase now? Perhaps at the level that you collct, it is not an issue. Thanks. So sorry, but i have never seen this website which you kindly forwarded and am not able to open it to see what I suspect are wonderful coins. http://rapidshare.de/files/23331327/alexsander.zip.htmlV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAJ Posted June 19, 2006 Report Share Posted June 19, 2006 Got your download to work - and it was just fine when one reads directions. Beauties. But it seems to me like the Polish coins were not minted as well and thus have not held up over time as well. There are several that are almost impossible to find in reasonable condition, such as the silver 5Z, 10Z, and then the gold as well. (I think the denominations are correct.) All are Alexander coins. Again, thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted June 19, 2006 Report Share Posted June 19, 2006 Grivna, I urge you to read the pdf files when you have the time. Some of the new evidence is extremely shocking as well as quite "high tech" at the same time. What is more interesting is how difficult it is to determine with the first glance, and that specific density test must be perform to determine such tests. The scientific report on this topic has absolutely threw me off. Counterfeits seemed to have been produced from the early days of the Soviet eras. Appearently the quality is so high that mass spectrometry tests had to be thrown in to check the chemical composition. In all, there are three major different alloys, one is the genuine raw Ural metal, a more refined platinum alloy that was probably used later for restriking, and finally a high quality counterfeit minted in 100% pure platinum, which doesn't make any sense as the technology was not there. I have read the PDF files. I don't doubt the scientific validity of the metal analysis performed and agree that coins of high purity could not have been made at the time that the platinum pieces were originally made for circulation. However, I have difficulty with the assumption that because the high purity coins were struck at a later date, that they are therefore forgeries. The authors seem to take the position that "novodel" and "forgery" are synonyms, a view which I reject as extreme and reflective of an apparent misunderstanding of what novodels are. It is important to remember that genuine novodels were made by the Russian mint with official approval and sometimes using original dies. They are officially produced restrikes. There are sellers on ebay who try to pass off modern fakes as "novodels", but these are frauds that serve only to confuse people. The US 1804 dollar is an American novodel, officially struck after 1804 using newly made dies (there were no US silver dollars struck in 1804). Yet very few collectors of US coins would say the 1804 dollar is a "forgery" because it was actually made sometime in the 1830s. What the the authors have done is to demonstrate that original Russian platinum coins can be distinguished from later novodels by studying the metallic composition. This is useful information, but the assumption that novodels and forgeries are the same thing is just bad numismatics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAJ Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 http://cgi.ebay.com/POLAND-1818-GOLD-50-ZL...1QQcmdZViewItem SPEAKING OF ALEXANDER, ANTONE HAVE TOUGHTS ON POLISH COINS THAT DO FEATURE HIM, LIKE THIS ONE? WOULD BE GREAT TO OWN, BUT JUST A TAD COSTLY. IT SEEMS LIKE THE STRIKE ON THESE POLISH COINS WAS WEAK AND POOR WEAR RESULTED. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gxseries Posted August 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 http://cgi.ebay.com/POLAND-1818-GOLD-50-ZL...1QQcmdZViewItem sPEAKING OF aLEXANDER, ANTONE HAVE TOUGHTS ON POLISH COINS THAT DO FEATURE HI, LIKE THISONE? WOULD BE GREAT TO OWN, BUT JUST A TAD COSTLY. I'm afraid that's the regular price these days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAJ Posted August 5, 2006 Report Share Posted August 5, 2006 Thanks. Do you own one of these, if I may ask? What is your take on the strike of these Polish coins? Does it seem to you also that it is weak, thus wear is poor? I have watched for some silver Alexander pieces from this period and finding quality is impossible. I do not know where they were minted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gxseries Posted August 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2006 I don't think such Polish coins are weakly struck. But I guess it must be the scarcity of them which seems that good quality coins are hard to find. I don't believe you will find many excellent examples on ebay. The best is if you register with Dmitry Markov, an excellent dealer when it comes to Russian coins, and perhaps you might want to try to email him. Some of the Polish coin catalogues are here: http://www.sixbid.com/home/auctions/mmamer...olishIssues.pdf http://www.russian-coins.net/pics/nysaleXIIsup_6-10.pdf Prices are not pretty though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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