decimal coinage packaging variations

[SlavicScott]

I am compiling information regarding decimal coinage. I know that right now there is little true collector interest in this "modern" stuff, but for the next generation of collectors, this may become an area of interest.

 

I would like to get a head start on the documentation of the Royal Mint's endless stream of products, and could use some help. If anyone knows of anything abnormal or unusual about any modern decimal stuff, please share with me!!

 

The types of anomalies that I am looking for include things such as:

 

1. 1999 £2 standard issue ("History of Technological Advancement"), was not included in neither the Proof sets nor BU Mint folders. All sets included only the Rugby £2, yet every year since then, all sets have included both the standard and commemorative £2 issues. (speaking of which, was a standard issue even made?? I don't have one, yet, so I don't know)

 

2. 1983 Heinz BU set. (short-set that doesn't include the new £1, cover resembles the Heinz label. I assume this is a promotional pack ordered from the Mint by Heinz)

 

3. 1988 Australian Bi-centennial BU set. (normal set has picture of blue pillow, this set has map of Australia)

 

4. 1996 25th Anniversary of Decimalization BU set. (This is a 14 piece set, containing 1996 7-piece set 1p-£1, along with a 7 piece pre-decimal set of various dates. Green packaging, slightly larger than normal sets)

 

5. 1984 BU sets?? I saw a dealer's list that listed both a 7-piece and an 8-piece set for this year, but no other details given. Been watching for any 7-piece sets to come up on eBay, to compare for differences.

 

6. 1990 Queen Mother 90th Birthday crown. I have read that it comes both on a card, and in a folder, but the folder is uncommon. I have seen the card, which is off-white, vertical format, with some script writing above, and the coin below. I have also seen what appears to also be a card, but horizontal in format, with a picture of the Queen Mother to the left, and the coin to the right?? Or is this perhaps the inside portion of the folder issue??

 

Another question I have- I recently bought a couple of Proof sets from a local hobby shop. 1984 & 1986. Both are in the red leather "deluxe" packaging, but from what I have gathered from my resources, the red leather cases weren't issued until 1985?? So, should I assume that someone just combined the 1984 set with a newer case?

 

While I am on this subject, maybe someone can give me some clarity on the early proof sets. I vaguely remember once being told (or reading, but I forget where), that the Proof sets of 1970-1973 were all made in 1973, and that the 1974-1976 sets were all made in 1976, and that only from 1977 on were they actually made in the actual year. Is this just some yankee hocus-pocus rumors, or is there any truth to this?

[Ætheling]

Normal 1999 £2 coins were not issued. They are all Rugby ones... i still don't think sporting events deserve commemorating on coinage.

 

 

As for the red leatherette case on the 1984, sounds like the case is later, i can find no mention of 1984s in red.

 

With regards to the early 1970s proof sets, i haven't heard anything about this. Although not so sure about 1973, but i have often wondered what the mint was doing for much of 1972? Since only the 25p coins were issued in that year. The 1971 mintage of bronze coins had started in 1968 and had continued through to 1971, with all pieces dated 1971. So there was no need for and bronze. The cupronickel coins, well they had been minted in large numbers from 1968-1971 and by 1972 there were far too many in circulation to warrant any more being issued. Infact there were so many 5p pieces out there they didn't resume minting those till 1975. So other than the 1972 proof sets and the 25p commem there was nothing much doing...

[Tiffibunny]

i still don't think sporting events deserve commemorating on coinage.

 

I agree.

[mitch91]

I agree.

 

 

Me too all though something like the 2012 olympics has to have one.

[Ætheling]

Well i mean the Olympics maybe. But things like the Football (soccar) world cup, the euro soccar cup, the Rugby world cups. It gets to the point where they just start issuing sporting commems left right and centre.

 

Now i could understand them issuing one if say we'd won, which would be rather unusual and perhaps a one off. The 1999 rugby cup we lost (it's commemorated), the 2003 one we won... no commem anywhere. No real sense to it. It suggests to me the mint wants to make some money thus makes a commem on whatever is going on at the time. Next they'll be issuing them because the sun is shining. (Although in Britian that oner is probably a relevant commem to have!)

[Trantor_3]

Next they'll be issuing them because the sun is shining. (Although in Britian that oner is probably a relevant commem to have!)

[SlavicScott]

With regards to the early 1970s proof sets, i haven't heard anything about this. Although not so sure about 1973, but i have often wondered what the mint was doing for much of 1972? Since only the 25p coins were issued in that year. The 1971 mintage of bronze coins had started in 1968 and had continued through to 1971, with all pieces dated 1971. So there was no need for and bronze. The cupronickel coins, well they had been minted in large numbers from 1968-1971 and by 1972 there were far too many in circulation to warrant any more being issued. Infact there were so many 5p pieces out there they didn't resume minting those till 1975. So other than the 1972 proof sets and the 25p commem there was nothing much doing...

 

Found the post again, from Geoff T, on predecimal.com. The 1970-72 sets were made in 1972, the 1973-76 sets were made in 1976. Revived the old thread to see if I can get some further information about it.

[Ætheling]

1972 would make more sense than 73 to me.

 

Wonder why they waited until 1976 to do the others though?

[SlavicScott]

2. 1983 Heinz BU set. (short-set that doesn't include the new £1, cover resembles the Heinz label. I assume this is a promotional pack ordered from the Mint by Heinz)

 

 

 

Yesterday, I received yet another 1983 set, produced for Martini & Rossi. So far, for 1983, I have documented:

• official BU Mint set (with picture of Beefeaters on front)
  
• Heinz BU Mint set (with Heinz label on front) {short set, does not contain new £1 coin, folder appears to be modified remainders from 1982 set, also ©1982}
  
• Martini & Rossi BU Mint set (with Tower of London on front)
  

[Ætheling]

1983 was a good year numismatically speaking. New £1 coins and the last year that the halfpence was struck for general circulation. I think the years 1982-1985 are the years that saw the first phase of a 'revolution' in the decimal coinage.

 

Phase 2 being 1990-1998.

[SlavicScott]

1983 was a good year numismatically speaking. New £1 coins and the last year that the halfpence was struck for general circulation. I think the years 1982-1985 are the years that saw the first phase of a 'revolution' in the decimal coinage.

 

Phase 2 being 1990-1998.

 

Ohhh, I haven't even begun to acquire and document the new £1 coins. Besides the official RM folder, there is also a folder issued for distribution by Typhoo Tea, a perspex cased coin issued for Cinzano, not to even consider that I vaguely recall seeing one in a perspex case issued by Lloyds Bank. And, of course, the PNC's were started by then.

 

 

1982-1985 was the "evolution" stage, while 1990-1998 was the "revolution" stage, and 2002-?? is currently in the "de-evolution" stage, as they are retarding the interest of collectors by peddling too much crap out at once. I mean, this year, both a Trafalgar and a Nelson commem?? Isn't that just a little too redundant??

 

 

As for an earlier discussion, I was browsing through my Krause catalog, and realised that the Royal Mint was very busy in the early 1970's, churning out circulation coinage for all the Commonwealth nations that were gaining independence, such as Belize, Bahamas, Barbados, Bermuda, Kenya, Tanzania, Rhodesia, etc. Of course, with the Franklin Mint breathing down their necks to get the contracts for many of these countries, the RM had to really get it right to keep in the game.

[Ætheling]

2002+ is going ever faster in devolution.

 

I've just heard the worst news i can think of hearing. (Well it's kind of good and it's about time i must say, but the way they're going about it).

 

Namely the 1p-10p and the 50p are going in for redesigning. All the reverses are going to be changed which will be the first time since the 60s.

 

Sure i think it's time for a change, change is good... BUT;

 

 

They've gone and made it into a competition (again) that anyone can enter in designs for the coinage and they'll pick the winners. Now this is a good system because this design is what got us that fantastic £2 coin reverse.

 

However the bad news is the mint have emphasised the fact they want coins to reflect modern Britain and they want them to have a modern feel. Be it geographic locations, architecture, older hereldic designs in a modern stylisation. Which to me is quite appaling.

 

Geography = Clipart rubbish, or State Quarter type designs (trash!)

Modern rehash of old designs = stuff like that new St. George (and how crap was that?)

 

 

Modern = bland = total crap.

 

This is going to be a disaster i fear. You're gonna hear a hell of alot of complaints and cursing from me over the new year or two for sure.

 

I'm not too happy about Britannia being dropped, the rest i couldn't really care less about. I never thought much of the thistle or the portcullis or the plumes.

 

I like the 10p lion it feels regal, that's the only one of the lower denominations i'm gonna miss. The Britannia loss though is going to be bad, unless they can do a decent standing Britannia? That would be good.

 

If only i could draw.

[SlavicScott]

However the bad news is the mint have emphasised the fact they want coins to reflect modern Britain and they want them to have a modern feel. Be it geographic locations, architecture, older hereldic designs in a modern stylisation. Which to me is quite appaling.

 

Geography = Clipart rubbish, or State Quarter type designs (trash!)

Modern rehash of old designs = stuff like that new St. George (and how crap was that?)

Modern = bland = total crap.

 

 

Maybe instead of the public creating designs, they could just come up with ideas, and let Philip Nathan make the designs based on their ideas. I think he does some great work. I really like the Britannia seated on the 2005 Britannia coin, wonder how that would look on a 1p. (that would keep her around, as you requested, and also put her back on the penny, which she has so long been associated with.) The 5p is such a small piece that it is going to be difficult to do anything other than a very basic design.

[Ætheling]

The 5p should be eliminated.

 

Leaving us with 1p, 2p, 10p, etc.

 

Then the 1p can be axed at a later date. Which would let us do everything in even numbers, it cuts out the useless penny like alot of collectors in the US want to see. However i think going up in 5's would lead to more rapid inflation and price rises due to a much reduced price range available. This is exactly what happened with decimalisation when they went for 240 pennies in a pound to a mere 100, the prices went up dramatically. Penny sweets cost 2.4 times as much in September 1971 as they had in February 1971. Which is a big rise in 7 months. And this is only on the most basic level.

 

If we keep the 2p it should keep prices from going up too much, instead of 5p, 10, 15p, 20p. You'd have 2p, 4p, 6p, 8p, 10p, 12p etc upto 20p.

 

 

And as someone stated on predicmal forum, 'no fluffy animals'. IO don't like animals depicted on coinage (i don't mind lions and things), but when we get to hedgehogs, hens and ladybirds i start to worry.

[Ætheling]

Philip Nathan looks skilled enough to me. I could live with that!

[Trantor_3]

And as someone stated on predicmal forum, 'no fluffy animals'. IO don't like animals depicted on coinage (i don't mind lions and things), but when we get to hedgehogs, hens and ladybirds i start to worry.

 

 

The wren wasn't too bad, was it?

 

 

I'd love to see the pre decimal reverses back : al those coats of armor, shields etc. and indeed a decent Britania, either seated or standing

[Ætheling]

The wren wasn't too bad, was it?

 

 

As much as i like wrens, it has to be said the wren farthing really wasn't up to much. (I find it quaint because i like wrens), but i just don't like animals on coins, that should be left to Australia and Ireland.

 

Appropriate animals for coinage are;

 

Lions, Leopards, Unicorns, Eagles, and all other animals traditionally used in coats of arms. I might also accept Squirrels because they're cute and Flamingos because they're pink.

 

Shields and coats of arms with lots of trimmings and crowns are good. Take the traditional Austrian reverse, double headed eagle holding swords and a shield, with a nice big crown. It doesn't get much better than that.

[SlavicScott]

If anyone is interested in my progress with this little project, I have been scanning all of the packaging (except the proof sets) to my little website:

 

http://coins.sdsimon.com

[Tiffibunny]

Very nice! I would like some of those Slovenians.

[SlavicScott]

Very nice!  I would like some of those Slovenians.

 

They are cheap, and available. The problem is finding them individually. It might be best to pick up the full 11 piece set (usually available on eBay for around $15-20), and just sell off any of the individual pieces that you aren't interested in. I bought a group of 5 at once, and then had so much trouble picking up the other pieces alone, I just bought the full set, and now have a few extras floating around:

 

- 1993 Operosorum Labacensium Academy (bee-hive)

- 1994 1000th Anniversary - Glagolitic Alphabet (feather quill pen)

- 1995 50th Anniversary - F.A.O.

- 1995 50th Anniversary - Defeat of Facism (broken chains)

- 1995 Aljazev Stolp

 

(if you are interested in any of these, let me know)

[ccg]

Semi-off-topic:

 

What? They're axing Britannia?!

[SlavicScott]

Semi-off-topic:

 

What? They're axing Britannia?!

 

Not sure what you are referring to, but yes, they are planning to re-design most all the circulating coinage, and it is quite possible that Britannia will be removed from the 50p. Things are still in the early stages, so it is hard to know what will happen.

[Ætheling]

Well Britannia has been lost before so it wouldn't be a monumental change really.

 

Let's face it Britannia was dropped after the Romans left and it didn't reappear until fairly recently in the 1670s. So the current tradition of Britannia has only been with us a mere 320 odd years, compared to well over 1000 years between her disappearance with the decline of antiquity and her reappearance in the 17th century.