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5 êîïååê 1807 êì


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All greetings. Today, bought the coin. Please rate.

Condition? XF-UNC??? Cost? Thank you.

needs to be profesionally washed/cleaned :ninja:

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This is the best I was able to do in years of collecting the series:

And this is not UNC. I do not think I ever have seen a KM true UNC 5 kopeks.

So get yours cleaned and will see what happens.

Igor, what do you mean "This is the best I was able to do..." - cleaning or finding? I'm presenting my best find of them, it's a 5kop1806/5KM overdate. How would you try to clean our friend's coin?

5kop1806km.jpgSigi :ninja:

By sigistenz

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All greetings. Today, bought the coin. Please rate.

Condition? XF-UNC??? Cost? Thank you.

As others have pointed out, this coin is hardly going to grade UNC. Depending on how "clean" it might get, could possibly grade AU ... but then since the coin would have been cleaned, maybe only XF as net grade. From the way it looks, it was probably cleaned some time ago and has gotten green corrosion afterwards (probably from improper cleaning).

 

I have had good results removing green deposits (if they weren't too deep) using extra virgin olive oil. But you need to give it some time and change the oil when it becomes green. Whatever you do, DO NOT try to scrub the green stuff off with a toothbrush or something like that, it will leave scratches and only make things worse.

 

There is nothing wrong with dark brown or even black patina on copper coins, though. I only do this with green corrosion (also known as verdigris).

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As others have pointed out, this coin is hardly going to grade UNC. Depending on how "clean" it might get, could possibly grade AU ... but then since the coin would have been cleaned, maybe only XF as net grade. From the way it looks, it was probably cleaned some time ago and has gotten green corrosion afterwards (probably from improper cleaning).

 

I have had good results removing green deposits (if they weren't too deep) using extra virgin olive oil. But you need to give it some time and change the oil when it becomes green. Whatever you do, DO NOT try to scrub the green stuff off with a toothbrush or something like that, it will leave scratches and only make things worse.

 

There is nothing wrong with dark brown or even black patina on copper coins, though. I only do this with green corrosion (also known as verdigris).

 

Sorry to butt in, but would you say that this coin has verdigris?

1kop1861emr.jpg

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Sorry to butt in, but would you say that this coin has verdigris?

1kop1861emr.jpg

Those spots look like they could be from some other metal in the alloy than copper. I would hesitate to try to clean this one without further knowledge or analysis of the spots. In other words, they don't look "green" enough to me. :ninja:

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That looks much better now.

 

What did you use to get rid of the green stuff so quickly?

 

How does the other side of the coin look now?

 

Yes, it does look much better.

The only problem for the topic starter is that most collectors in Russia like their copper "red" and "yellow", not chocolate.

So that will reduce the price by a bunch.

 

Let's see the other side.

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Yes, it does look much better.

The only problem for the topic starter is that most collectors in Russia like their copper "red" and "yellow", not chocolate.

200 year old copper in mint "red" or "yellow" is not so easy to find here.

Maybe it is more common in Russia? :ninja:

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I am not sure it is easier to find in Russia, but it is certainly prised highly.

BTW, my 1806 above I consider "yellow", which is very tough for KM .

Wonderful coin and I doubt I will see a better one any time soon!

 

For KM Alexander I pyatak, I have only this (previously posted) 1808, which I purchased as a type coin. It is a decent example, but not quite as nice as your 1806.

 

post-383-1151426166.jpg

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Wonderful coin and I doubt I will see a better one any time soon!

 

For KM Alexander I pyatak, I have only this (previously posted) 1808, which I purchased as a type coin. It is a decent example, but not quite as nice as your 1806.

 

post-383-1151426166.jpg

 

Nice coin! For me it also falls into "yellow" category.

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cleaning coins in Russia or use baby laundry soap, which should contain Trilon, is the most schyadyaschy way to clean coins from the green. Soap should grate and pour hot water, turn out zhele.V him and want to put a coin and every day dostovat and a toothbrush to clean a little

The other side of the coin looks as well.

 

Some googling reveals that Trilon is a trade name for a chemical similar to EDTA, which works by chelation. :ninja:

 

I believe EDTA has been discussed here as a chemical useful for removing verdigris (the green stuff) while leaving patina (brown stuff) unharmed.

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Some googling reveals that Trilon is a trade name for a chemical similar to EDTA, which works by chelation. ;)

 

I believe EDTA has been discussed here as a chemical useful for removing verdigris (the green stuff) while leaving patina (brown stuff) unharmed.

 

I experimented with EDTA a while ago. EDTA first makes the green turn black, then takes away the nice brown patina but at last also the black. You obtain a dull piggy pink all over, with surfaces scarred where the verdigris has been washed out. :ninja: You are left with the problem to get the coin brown. Sigi

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Hi Sigi!

perhaps the coin belonging to the original poster was covered with superficial verdigris that had not yet corroded into the metal and the solution with "baby laundry soap" was mild enough to simply remove the superficial green stuff. The description seems to involve warm water and light brushing as well. :ninja:

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Hi Sigi!

perhaps the coin belonging to the original poster was covered with superficial verdigris that had not yet corroded into the metal and the solution with "baby laundry soap" was mild enough to simply remove the superficial green stuff. The description seems to involve warm water and light brushing as well. :ninja:

Hi Josh! as far as I have penetrated into coin doctoring, there are at least two different verdigris', reacting differently. I have been trying cooking verdigris coins in baking soda & water. Some coins become perfect, others won't improve (to say the least). One has to have the coin in the hand rather than guess from a picture ;)

BTW, it seems to me that the surface of our friend's coin is not very smooth now (?). Sigi

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BTW, it seems to me that the surface of our friend's coin is not very smooth now (?). Sigi

If there is a difference in the smoothness, it is not clear to me from the pictures.

 

I am very curious to see the other side because it appears to me that the verdigris was heavier there (and therefore more likely to have eaten into the surface of the coin).

 

Unfortunately, it is not possible to say if that is the case, because we have not been shown an "after" picture of that side of the coin. :ninja:

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If there is a difference in the smoothness, it is not clear to me from the pictures.

 

I am very curious to see the other side because it appears to me that the verdigris was heavier there (and therefore more likely to have eaten into the surface of the coin).

 

Unfortunately, it is not possible to say if that is the case, because we have not been shown an "after" picture of that side of the coin. :ninja:

I tend to believe, from looking at the picture, that the verdigris has merely changed color rather than being completely removed. It will most likely return, or continue to grow under the dark surface, rearing its ugly head sometime in the future in the new owner's collection. ;) Also, brushing or scrubbing a copper coin is going to expose parts of the coin which had not been corroded previously, so this only makes matters worse because these areas are prone to new instances of verdigris.

 

I only had some success removing verdigris with olive oil, but it takes quite a long time. When you change the oil after a month or so, it (the oil) is usually quite green or bluish-green, whereas it was yellow before the coin was soaked. Also, when I put the coin on a paper towel to absorb some of the oil, it leaves a green impression of the coin. Therefore, we can assume that the verdigris is being dissolved by the oil. Unfortunately, olive oil will also remove some of the dark patina if left long enough. But with a little luck, and if the green stuff isn't already too deep, it works quite well and the brown patina is preserved.

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I have to agree with Bob on this. Looking at the after photo, the coin is quite dark, artificialy so, and not "chocolate" (eg grivnas very nice 1808KM). Lets hope the verdigris doesnt come back.

 

Incidently, I think the eagle design for this series of KM 5 kopecks, along with the later (1789-96) KM 5 kopecks eagle of Catherine II, are to me some of the most artistic and beatiful designs for the old 2 headed bird. :ninja:

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I agree with everything said in this link. That's why it is very difficult to price this coin. Yes, the details are nice, but the rest is not. I will say it is worth a few hundred dollars.

BTW, I was just reading an interesting numismatic book from 1914. In there it mentions that KM 1802-1810 5 kopek coins were considered quite rare at the time and were bringing from 5 to 10 roubles (a lot!).

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