What grading methods do you use?

[jeggy]

Hi, I'm from Europe (German living in Switzerland). Therefore, I don't use the American Standard of coin grading. As you all may know, there's still the old way in grading coins. But this doesn't mean that the preservation of a coin is not important to the collectors.

 

The standard grades (above G, VG) in Europe are as follow:

 

"schoen" = s = F

"sehr schoen" = ss = VF

"vorzueglich" = vz = XF

"stempelglanz" = st = BU

 

Additionally, we have been using s-ss (F/VF); ss-vz (VF/XF) etc. for grades between these rough definitions.

 

Since a couple of years, more and more dealers and collectors are using finer grades. For instance, some use a numeric system, which takes care of the increasing weithing of quality-awareness:

 

Here's my try of a rough translation of this scale:

 

0,0 = Proof

0,1 = Proof minus (proof with very slight problems like hairlines etc.)

0,8 = perfect coin (may compare with MS-69,70)

0,9 = exceptional BU. very low number of minor problems.

1,0 = BU; a low number of very little problems are visible without magnification

1,1 = Uncirculated with slight minor problems caused by post-manufacturing process or transport

1,2 = Uncirculated; like coins from fresh mint rolls

1,5 = About uncirculated, like coins from fresh mint rolls with a bit more problems

1,8 = between XF and AU

2,0 = XF; problems like rim nicks must be mentioned.

2,2 = about XF

2,8 = very good VF

3,0 = VF; bigger problems must be mentioned

3,2 = about VF

4,0 = F; problems are not mentioned.

 

With proof coins with more problems, we say "XF from Proof" etc.

As you can see, the integer values 1,2,3,4 represent the old grading standard.

 

Eye appeal is always excluded from grading itself.

Anyhow, an exceptional eye appeal will be mentioned.

 

Cheers,

jeggy

[28Plain]

I agree that eye appeal is in the eye of the beholder. I like toned coins, but I realize that to some people, toning detracts from the beauty of the coin.

[ageka]

I buy mainly in Germany and secondary in France

 

The Germans have Bankfrisch which is the lowest grades of MS60-63

Then they have Stempelglanz which is roughly MS63-65

Then in theory they have Handgehoben which is MS65 plus

 

I have several conversion tables by people that do not understand

American grading at all

My main criticism is that FDC (fleur de coin) is MS 65 plus and not uncirculated

and BU is very inderiminate so I would say MS63-MS64

 

Scroll down to bottom of this link

http://www.anumis.de/lexikon/e/pe079.html

 

Here is another

http://www.predecimal.com/gradingchart.htm

 

Even if the grade is given you still have to take into account that most vendors do not know how to grade accurately and if they do some will overgrade to see whether you know how to grade accurately

[Ætheling]

Most of the stuff i buy i usually buy it from sellers that don't state a grade at all. And even if the seller does grade it i usually ignore that grade and grade it myself. Generally i tend to agree with the sellers i deal with but sometimes i think sellers have both overgraded and on occasions undergraded the coins they have had.

 

I've seen some George II Young head sixpences for sale that i would grade as GEF, if not AUNC. I can't remember if the sellers stated a grade or not but since they nearly had full eyes i could grade them with accuracy.

[Ætheling]

On the subject of BU (Brilliant UNC).

 

 

I find some people over complicate this grade by trying to equate it to MS65 or whatever.

 

BU in British terms is actually far more simple than that.

 

If a coin is Uncirculated be it MS60-MS65 then it's simply UNC, if it's above MS65 then Gem UNC. If it's MS68 or higher then it's Super Gem UNC. Although generally i totally discount that grade and stick with Gem. Although generally i don't use Gem myself when describing my own coins. I just label all my UNCs as UNCs, it's adequate no need to over complicate things.

 

 

BU on the other hand is basically any kind of UNC coin with full lustre intact. So bronze coins with full mint bloom/brilliance are BU. 90% lustre Copper is not BU.

 

Brilliant white silver coins are also BU, toned silver coins are not.

 

You might have a toned coin that would grade Gem UNC and thus be in a higher grade state than a white coin with full mint lustre. So Gem UNC can be better than BU.

[jeggy]

I buy mainly in Germany and secondary in France

 

The Germans have Bankfrisch which is the lowest grades of MS60-63

Then they have Stempelglanz which is roughly MS63-65

Then in theory they have Handgehoben which is MS65 plus

 

I have several conversion tables by people that do not understand

American grading at all

My main criticism is that FDC (fleur de coin) is MS 65 plus and not uncirculated

and BU is very inderiminate so I would say MS63-MS64

"Handgehoben" is no common term in grading. It's a special term used mainly by the Austrians. Their current mint sets and commemorative coins are of exceptional quality, they call it "handgehoben", which means "taken from the die by hand". In reality, they have postprocessing with systematics which handles the coins with more care than the common standard (of other countries)

 

With a serious dealer, MS-66 is "stempelglanz" (FDC) and above. MS-64/65 is "fast stempelglanz" (nearly FDC). MS-62/63 is unz/st (between UNC and FDC), MS-60/61 is unz (UNC). If you read "st fein", "stempelglanz fein" or "st+", this should be MS-67 and above. For great eye appeal, you read "Prachtexemplar" (translated as "splendid specimen")

 

Even if the grade is given you still have to take into account that most vendors do not know how to grade accurately and if they do some will overgrade to see whether you know how to grade accurately

Serious German coin dealers are member of the dealer association "Der Berufsverband des deutschen Muenzenfachhandels e.V." - they have to commit to accurate grading. It is recommended to purchase coins from members of this association. Dealers which overgrade coins, are either "ebay trash dealers" or they will lose their reputation within a short time. Collectors are communicative people

 

jeggy

[ageka]

Jeggy

 

like I said different forums give different translations

and I respect your interpretation

 

http://www.anumis.de/lexikon/e/pe079.html

http://www.muenzen-lexikon.de/lexikon/s/ps280.html

http://users.skynet.be/bart.vandensteen/nu...waliteiten.html

http://www.predecimal.com/gradingchart.htm

http://www.doebelinet.ch/worldcoins/bewertung/bewertung.htm

http://www.eurocoins.liesemeijer.com/Grading.html

 

I use something for myself based on my understanding

and speaking german , french ; and english

 

stempelglanz is BU by definition of language

FDC means fleur de coin = flower coming out of the mould which by definition means the nicest the mold can produce

So by definition FDC has to be better then BU or stempelglanz

Now this is academic of course since nearly all ebay vendors will say look at the nice picture and honest vendors may grade correctly or lower so that you are happy when you receive the coin

 

However there is one vendor who has systematically been providing perfect pictures and germanwise perfect grading

He is atp50

 

http://stores.ebay.de/Briefmarken-Munzen-T...sQ3amesstQQtZkm

 

When I correspond with my american friend I have adopted the american

system an MS 63 correctly graded will allways be an MS63 in any language

[ageka]

This is one of the coins I consider FDC

 

[Guest Stujoe]

Since I mostly deal with circ coins, I typically use the standard USian grades without any number distinctions. AG G VG F VF EF AU. I don't usually use any numbers like G4, G6 and I like the a, n, g stuff and the + - stuff about as well as I like MS67.5...which is to say not at all.

 

 

When I grade MS coins it is usually 60, 63, 65. Anything above 65 is either too expensive for me to worry about or I can't tell much of a difference...like between 68 and 69 and 70.

[PAB]

Being another English collector I tend to grade 'old school' or posibly 'olde worlde' as this is what I am most used to and what is most used for british coins. However, since I also collect coins of the USA I initially grade them old school but convert them to the numerical grade later using the appropriate book. Therefore each collection then tends to be graded in the fashion most familiar to them (if that makes sense).

 

Regards,

 

PAB

[jlueke]

For non-US Fine, gFine, aVF, VF, gVF, aEF, EF

 

For US I like

 

AG, G, VG, F, VF, EF, AU, BU, Choice BU, Gem BU, Superb BU

My BUs are usually 2-3 of the existing grading points which is as close as I need to get for aesthetic purposes.

[ccg]

BU I always find to be an odd term as it can refer to anything for silver from MS60-70. Especially bad are those coins from mint bags which have been abused (ie. tossed or kicked around)

[daggit]

My method is rather unique and is reserved for special collectors like me. If its nice, shiney, reasonably scratch free I give it a "I'll keep that one grade". If it looks like crap I give it a " don't want that one grade".

[Burks]

I keep with the G, VG, etc method. Numbers don't really mean much to me at all unless we are talking about graded MS/PR coins. Price difference between a 63 and a 64 is crazy sometimes (I can't tell the difference most of the time).

 

To me, Keep It Simple Stupid is the best way