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A Banknote National Identity Crisis - Bukovina


Scottishmoney
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I received this note in a collection of mainly Romanian notes from a collector friend in Romania a couple of years ago. I immediately imaged it for my site, then I was perplexed - where do I put it? It was issued by Austria-Hungary beginning in 1912, but it was overstamped by Romanian authorities giving it status in their newly occupied part of the ex Austria-Hungary, Bukovina in 1919. This territory was subsequently disputed betwixt the Ukrainian National Republic and Romania, then after Ukraine was absorbed into the USSR, betwixt Romania and the USSR.

 

bukovina100koron1919dtl.jpg

 

The ladies from the Austrian and Hungarian sides of the note.

 

And the whole note:

 

 

bukovina100koron1919.jpg

 

 

The disputed province was subsequently split betwixt the USSR and Romania, and thence Ukrainians were deported from Romania, whilst Romanians were forced out to leave to Romania, often just moving close by through the boundary.

 

When the USSR forced Romania to cede several territories beginning in 1940 the region of Bukovina was absorbed into the USSR and the population shifted to mainly Ukrainians and Russians. With the Axis invasion of the USSR the following year, Romania re-integratted the province into Romania, but this only lasted until 1944 when yet again the region reverted to the USSR.

 

Now Bukovina is mostly in the Ukrainian nation, with only the small southern part being a part of Romania. The whole region, with the inclusion of Moldova and Transdnestr to the south is one of the most mixed up portions of territory in the world. To travel in some parts of Ukraine there you have to "sneak" through Moldovan territory - been there done that myself. Whilst Bukovina is largely not hotly disputed now, Moldova and Transdnestr have been in a long term frozen conflict since the dissolution of the USSR in 1991. Transdnestr is a small swath of territory to the east of the Dnestr river and is "protected" by Russian soldiers. Moldova is still largely a communist country, curiously though finds itself more comfortable with allying itself with the USA and the EU.

 

So here I have this note, from a province in Europe that is still not quite a part of any country, because it is largely populated by a mixture of peoples, Romanian, Hungarian, Russians, Ukrainians and even a few Germans.

 

When I get around to putting it on my site, I cannot quite put it in Ukraine, nor Romania, and not really Austria either. Perhaps Bukovina by itself is the wisest choice.

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I know what you mean. I usually place it in the nearest place it would be now. So for my Netherlands Indies notes, they are not in Netherlands, nor in something I made for Java or an entry for Netherlands Indies, but rather for Indonesia with a remark for it being also Java and the Netherlands Indies. It can be quite challenging for some of the African notes too, especially when there are issues for individual countries within a monetary union (like the modern EU) but also when there were general issues without country identifiers - then I have to make a special entry for that monetary union as well as having individual notes within that union.

 

But it's all part of the fun of the challenge, innit?

 

 

Nice note, btw!

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I know what you mean by annoying. I hate having to specify which Guinea I mean - A search for Guinea alone turns up Guinea Bissau, Portuguese Guinea, Papua New Guinea all mixed together with Guinea. 'Course if your're doing a Google search, then there's the Guinea Pigs, too!

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I received this note in a collection of mainly Romanian notes from a collector friend in Romania a couple of years ago. I immediately imaged it for my site, then I was perplexed - where do I put it? It was issued by Austria-Hungary beginning in 1912, but it was overstamped by Romanian authorities giving it status in their newly occupied part of the ex Austria-Hungary, Bukovina in 1919. This territory was subsequently disputed betwixt the Ukrainian National Republic and Romania, then after Ukraine was absorbed into the USSR, betwixt Romania and the USSR.

 

bukovina100koron1919dtl.jpg

 

The ladies from the Austrian and Hungarian sides of the note.

 

And the whole note:

 

 

bukovina100koron1919.jpg

 

 

The disputed province was subsequently split betwixt the USSR and Romania, and thence Ukrainians were deported from Romania, whilst Romanians were forced out to leave to Romania, often just moving close by through the boundary.

 

When the USSR forced Romania to cede several territories beginning in 1940 the region of Bukovina was absorbed into the USSR and the population shifted to mainly Ukrainians and Russians. With the Axis invasion of the USSR the following year, Romania re-integratted the province into Romania, but this only lasted until 1944 when yet again the region reverted to the USSR.

 

Now Bukovina is mostly in the Ukrainian nation, with only the small southern part being a part of Romania. The whole region, with the inclusion of Moldova and Transdnestr to the south is one of the most mixed up portions of territory in the world. To travel in some parts of Ukraine there you have to "sneak" through Moldovan territory - been there done that myself. Whilst Bukovina is largely not hotly disputed now, Moldova and Transdnestr have been in a long term frozen conflict since the dissolution of the USSR in 1991. Transdnestr is a small swath of territory to the east of the Dnestr river and is "protected" by Russian soldiers. Moldova is still largely a communist country, curiously though finds itself more comfortable with allying itself with the USA and the EU.

 

So here I have this note, from a province in Europe that is still not quite a part of any country, because it is largely populated by a mixture of peoples, Romanian, Hungarian, Russians, Ukrainians and even a few Germans.

 

When I get around to putting it on my site, I cannot quite put it in Ukraine, nor Romania, and not really Austria either. Perhaps Bukovina by itself is the wisest choice.

 

Hello Scottishmoney,

Very interesting! I think it depends on what You collect. You should really make Your own choice, and that's a good thing! I have added my similar note to Hungary without much hesitation, as 1 side is in Hungarian, and I mostly collect Hungary - in spite of the fact that it should have a Hungarian overprint to be truly Pick Hungary 27. Romanian collectors, of course, can feel free to think of it as Romanian because it is part of their history, too. And the STAMP is 100% Romanian! But let's trust Mr Alfred Pick, who cannot be accused of being prejudiced. This note is basically AUSTRIA 12, as You surely know. He also mentions it among Romanian banknotes (if it has the Romanian stamp), but only within the very clear category: "Austro-Hungarian Banknotes". (It was issued in Austria-Hungary, anyway, whatever history brought on later). So, in place of You & if I had collections from many countries, I would definitely put it in my Austria collection. I do not know of anybody collecting Bukovina... :ninja:

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Hello Scottishmoney,

Very interesting! I think it depends on what You collect. You should really make Your own choice, and that's a good thing! I have added my similar note to Hungary without much hesitation, as 1 side is in Hungarian, and I mostly collect Hungary - in spite of the fact that it should have a Hungarian overprint to be truly Pick Hungary 27. Romanian collectors, of course, can feel free to think of it as Romanian because it is part of their history, too. And the STAMP is 100% Romanian! But let's trust Mr Alfred Pick, who cannot be accused of being prejudiced. This note is basically AUSTRIA 12, as You surely know. He also mentions it among Romanian banknotes (if it has the Romanian stamp), but only within the very clear category: "Austro-Hungarian Banknotes". (It was issued in Austria-Hungary, anyway, whatever history brought on later). So, in place of You & if I had collections from many countries, I would definitely put it in my Austria collection. I do not know of anybody collecting Bukovina... :ninja:

I think that the notes with more than one stamp will sure make think easy. For example a HUngarian stamp of the city Pecs on one side and Romanian stamp on the other. Or the Czech stamp with the value in haleru on one side and Yugoslavian stamps on the other side.

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this stmped banknotes becamed romanian banknotes trough law. and the law was emited because romania in 1919 cannot have enaugh resources (time and money) to redraw all the austro-hungarian valute from market. so this banknotes whit no stamp are austro-hungarian, with stamp "ROMANIA * TIMBRU SPECIAL" are romanian, with "DEUTCHEOSTERRICHE" stamp are austrian, with "MAGYONOSVAR" are hungarian banknotes, etc.....

 

p.s. only stamped banknotes were acepted in payments in Romanian after 1919, and a lot of this bills are double stamped, for example: a banknote can be stamped in Romania and Hungary, or Romania and Serbia, Hunagry and Seribia, etc.... and here are the problems because this banknotes circulated in multiple countries and can be clasified to the respective countries. (see the pictures, the banknotes are in my collection)

resized_20_coroane_1913_stampila_pe_ambele_parti.jpg

P100909_19.00_01_.JPG

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I do not know of anybody collecting Bukovina... ;)

 

 

I do. and i guess i am not the only one..... ;) , and your afirmation that the stamped banknotes can be clasified as austrian banknotes is wrong :ninja: this banknotes are clasified ONLY by their overprint (stamp). for these reason a 50 corona 1902 stamped in ro is sold with 100 - 300 euro despite 50-70 euro without stamp! ;)

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I do. and i guess i am not the only one..... ;) , and your afirmation that the stamped banknotes can be clasified as austrian banknotes is wrong :ninja: this banknotes are clasified ONLY by their overprint (stamp). for these reason a 50 corona 1902 stamped in ro is sold with 100 - 300 euro despite 50-70 euro without stamp! ;)

 

What I meant, first of all, is that the banknote is originally Austro-Hungarian. And yes, there are a lot of countries which can claim it as theirs, there's no time & space here to speak about the history of Central/South-eastern Europe. I 100% agree that Romania can claim it as its own...but Austrian & Hungarian collectors can also say it belongs to us...By the way, Hungarian catalogs consider the note as (Austro)-Hungarian, with the remark it can have a number of different stamps (including Romanian)

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I do. and i guess i am not the only one..... ;) , and your afirmation that the stamped banknotes can be clasified as austrian banknotes is wrong :ninja: this banknotes are clasified ONLY by their overprint (stamp). for these reason a 50 corona 1902 stamped in ro is sold with 100 - 300 euro despite 50-70 euro without stamp! ;)

 

Yes, I completely believe You - and in Hungary notes with Hungarian overprint are worth a lot more than with any other stamp...that's only natural... ;)

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How about settling over some green tea ? Much better for our health.

 

 

neahhhh... beer is better. and about arguing wich beer ..... who give a thing? we wil have one fro each country ... :ninja:

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