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1768 altered date rouble


RW Julian
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The following offering on eBay has an altered date:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=190300637606

 

The correct date is 1763, 1764, or 1765. The seller was notified but he claims

that the date has not been changed. The 1780 rouble sold by this seller also

has an altered date but it appears to have been originally 1780 and merely

re-engraved to make the date look better.

 

RWJ

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Hi RWJ,

 

I am not an expert on altered coins, however, I do have and read, and refer to, the ANA course book on detecting counterfeit coins.

 

I really can't detect the alterations as such. Can you provide the PUPs?

 

I do agree that this coin does have the wrong date for a 67.2a coin.

 

Regardless of any alterations, where did the reverse design come from? What I call eplets, running from the bases of the neck to the Eagle's shoulders, does not fit the design of a 67.2a coin. It does, however, resemble the eplets on the 192.2 and the 197 design, (minus the two small flanking crowns), although these eplets start in the middle of the neck.

 

If this is a genuine piece, it sure is one heck of a mule or contemporary forgery using discarded dies?

 

Mud

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Hi RWJ,

 

I am not an expert on altered coins, however, I do have and read, and refer to, the ANA course book on detecting counterfeit coins.

I really can't detect the alterations as such. Can you provide the PUPs?

I do agree that this coin does have the wrong date for a 67.2a coin.

 

Regardless of any alterations, where did the reverse design come from? What I call eplets, running from the bases of the neck to the Eagle's shoulders, does not fit the design of a 67.2a coin. It does, however, resemble the eplets on the 192.2 and the 197 design, (minus the two small flanking crowns), although these eplets start in the middle of the neck.

If this is a genuine piece, it sure is one heck of a mule or contemporary forgery using discarded dies?

Mud

The obverse die of this piece, with neck ruff at the throat of the Empress, was used only

in the years 1762 through 1765. There are no known genuine pieces dated after 1765

with the neck ruff. The date is therefore altered. Moreover the figures of the date look very

crude compared to known genuine pieces.

 

The piece is very likely genuine. It just started out life with a different date.

 

RWJ

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The obverse die of this piece, with neck ruff at the throat of the Empress, was used only

in the years 1762 through 1765. There are no known genuine pieces dated after 1765

with the neck ruff. The date is therefore altered. Moreover the figures of the date look very

crude compared to known genuine pieces.

 

The piece is very likely genuine. It just started out life with a different date.

 

RWJ

 

 

What about the "eplet" design?

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What about the "eplet" design?

If you mean “epaulettes,” these are shoulder boards worn on military uniforms.

The string of eagles around the neck is from the Chain of St. Andrew and perfectly

normal for this eagle design.

 

The original coin is 1763 as I have found the die duplicates in my file of

illustrations. It is therefore a 1763 rouble with date altered to 1768.

 

It should also be noted that the mintmaster initials YaI are unknown for 1768.

 

RWJ

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If you mean “epaulettes,” these are shoulder boards worn on military uniforms.

The string of eagles around the neck is from the Chain of St. Andrew and perfectly

normal for this eagle design.

 

The original coin is 1763 as I have found the die duplicates in my file of

illustrations. It is therefore a 1763 rouble with date altered to 1768.

 

It should also be noted that the mintmaster initials YaI are unknown for 1768.

 

RWJ

________________________________________________________________________________

______________________________

 

Yep, "epaulettes". You are the second person to give me a spelling lesson. I sure hope that I am not banned for incorrect spelling!

 

Also, thanks for the info`above. I appreciate that.

 

Case closed.

 

Mudhut1000

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Yep, "epaulettes". You are the second person to give me a spelling lesson. I sure hope that I am not banned for incorrect spelling!

Also, thanks for the info`above. I appreciate that.

Case closed.

Mudhut1000

It was not intended as a spelling lesson. I had just never seen the term “eplet” before

and was uncertain of its meaning.

 

RWJ

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