Help with identifying three Chinese notes?

[sonician]

Hello,

 

I am new to the board, but am hopeful someone can assist. I have been collecting for about three years, and my collection currently spans about 5 - 2.5" binders.

 

I have three Chinese notes I have been unable to identify, and was wondering if anyone could assist. I've included pictures of each.

 

#1 - Uniface Chinese Note:

CCI04122009_00004.bmp (1.0 MB)

 

#2 - Chinese Note:

Front: CCI04122009_00003.bmp (679 KB)

Back: CCI04122009_00000.bmp (657 KB)

 

#3 - Chinese Note:

Front: CCI04122009_00002.bmp (824 KB)

Back: CCI04122009_00001.bmp (842 KB)

 

 

Thanks in advance!

[Dave]

Welcome to the board, and thanks for posting these notes!

 

Unfortunately I don't read Chinese, and am not able to assist in any translation. That's a shame as I have really taken to these vertical style Chinese notes from the early 1900's. I have tried to research all my notes and came up empty most of the time. There is not a lot of information about them. I can't help a lot, but here's what I can tell you:

 

I actually have the last one you have posted. Yours is 000852 while mine is 000806 - only 46 numbers apart. THe seller I bought mine from had ony this information: "China Tung Shang Local 1920s - 10 Chang" It is a local currency issued by a shop of some kind.

 

The middle note you have is what's known as a remainder, an unissued note. There should be a serial number similarly placed as on the last note. A nice note looking note.

 

THe top example I believe to be a bit older. It is also likely a piece of local, unissued currency. It's value is 5 Cash, also called 5 Wen. THe symbol used in the Chinese Character where the 5 is usually found is not in any of my books, though, and I defaulted to the bottom corners.

 

These are very not as easy to find as one would think. I have bought mine from sellers around the globe, who also didn't know much about them. I personally like the designs that incoorporate the everyday scenes into the borders. I have several of these, and even one with the same reverse which is only slightly different from each other.

 

I once found that a guy was selling three printing plates for this style of note - but I missed the sale by about a week. They were metal and were quite nice, and sold for less than 50 dollars. I have tried searching more and more for these but have never found any others. I also found out that there were some notes similar to the remainders that were in printers sample books. These were taken by the salesmen and they were shown to the local shops as examples of what their work was like. I have one that fits into this description, aa it has an elongated left hand side border with holes in the blank border as if it were strung into a book. Some notes that are remainders might be trimmed up sample notes as well. This might be why I can't find any information on the remainders, but doesn't explain why I can't find any info on the issued notes. I think that they were just not selected for the more common cataloges, at least not yet.

 

The Standard Catalog of World Paper Money General Issues (Volume Two) has some exsamples of how the more common placement of year, denomination, serial number, etc were placed onto these notes. Their examples are for an older (Ching Dynasty 1644-1911) era than my notes are.

 

Well, that's about all I know of your notes... sorry it took me so long to say so little - I tend to ramble on sometimes. please let us know if you find out any more.

[sonician]

I actually have the last one you have posted. Yours is 000852 while mine is 000806 - only 46 numbers apart. THe seller I bought mine from had ony this information: "China Tung Shang Local 1920s - 10 Chang" It is a local currency issued by a shop of some kind.

 

I've been looking for a board like this one for some time. Obviously, I wasn't looking hard enough.. lol

 

Thanks for the information. By chance, did you pickup that Tung Shang Local note from a seller on eBay? Chances are its the same guy I got mine from.

 

I may have more translation information later today or tomorrow and will share what I find out.

 

If anyone else here has more information, please feel free. In my attempt to catalog everything in my collection (which is quickly growing out of control) these ones stick out since I can't put a serial number on them.

 

Thanks again!

[mufelika]

In my attempt to catalog everything in my collection (which is quickly growing out of control) these ones stick out since I can't put a serial number on them.

 

Thanks again!

 

None of these notes are listed in the Pick catalogs for world paper money. They are too local. You will need a very specialized catalog of Chinese notes to find a catalog entry for them. The only one in English that I am aware of that might have these notes listed is the Smith-Matravers book on Chinese notes. It is over 30 years old so pricing is going to be meaningless.

[sonician]

Front: CCI04122009_00003.bmp (679 KB)

Back: CCI04122009_00000.bmp (657 KB)

 

A "little" information on #2:

 

The second one:

 

This thing has 中華民國 on it, so it means it is from Taiwan or KMT-era China. It means Republic of China as opposed to People's Republic of China.

It's for some business at a river junction. I can't make out all the top characters.

 

It says the bearer of this note gets 5 bucks off a funeral or something? There's room on the side to fill in: Day, Month, Year, ticket number.

[Dave]

A "little" information on #2:

 

The second one:

 

This thing has 中華民國 on it, so it means it is from Taiwan or KMT-era China. It means Republic of China as opposed to People's Republic of China.

It's for some business at a river junction. I can't make out all the top characters.

 

It says the bearer of this note gets 5 bucks off a funeral or something? There's room on the side to fill in: Day, Month, Year, ticket number.

 

 

 

Yeah, some of these are very local and very specialized. Some have values in rice, fish, bricks, etc., but were sometimes used as currency, as their value and trust in the local company made them worthy. In this regard, they are very similar to many types of Japanese Hansatsu notes. These notes are also vertical in orientation (called bookmark notes due to their size) and have differing values in gold, silver (which I've found to be the most common), rice, fish, etc. Hansatsu were issued by various entities, and were used in much the same way as these chinese notes, though these notes are much more recent than Hansatsu notes.

 

It's interesting that you've deciphered the 中華民國 meaning Taiewan/KMT era China. The blank areas for filling in the redemption of the note is aslo interesting. Thanks for the info.

[Dave]

I've been looking for a board like this one for some time. Obviously, I wasn't looking hard enough.. lol

 

Thanks for the information. By chance, did you pickup that Tung Shang Local note from a seller on eBay? Chances are its the same guy I got mine from.

 

I may have more translation information later today or tomorrow and will share what I find out.

 

If anyone else here has more information, please feel free. In my attempt to catalog everything in my collection (which is quickly growing out of control) these ones stick out since I can't put a serial number on them.

 

Thanks again!

 

 

As I recall this one I got from Argentina from a seller calling himself Aramon or somethign similar. Liekly the same seller.

[FrankC]

I think the last note you posted is

 

Provincial Bank of Hopei

value 10 Strings or 10,000 cents

 

There were so many notes and so many different banks in China at this time ( 1920/30) not all are known.

 

If you can get hold of a book called " Chinese Banknotes" by Ward Smith and Brian Maltravers you may find more information

 

Frank

[FrankC]

For anyone interested in old Chinese banknotes this book , free of copyright and downloadable may be a worthwhile read

 

 

http://www.archive.org/details/certainoldchines00daviiala

 

There's a box on the left hand side to download in PDF format

 

Frank

[chinnotes]

The first note is an unissued remainder, a private issue by a firm called "Detaiheju". The incomplete date line begins with "min guo" which means the note was to be issued after the Xinhai revolution in 1911... Also no denomination is written on the note

 

The 2nd note is a 5 Diao note (not "wen"), also a remainder with the date line not completed. Again we have "min guo..." = "republic", so after 1911. The issuing companie's name is "Ruishenghao", located in Jiahe County, Hebei province

The complete series had 1,2,3,5,and 10 diao notes. Notes were printed in Tianjin.

 

The 3rd note is a 10 chuan note, issud by a firm "Zhanfutai". The firm was located in "Yeyi", unfortunately this name no longer exists and I was not yet able to find out in which province "Yeyi" is situated. Notes were printed in Hankou. No date is given on the note, but from the style this is for sure again a note of the Republican era.

 

Erwin

[Dave]

Hello Erwin! First off, let me bid you welcome you to Coinpeople.com! You seem to have a great amount of knowledge which will be greatly appreciated here.

 

I have a copy of the third note listed. Could you please inform me of the area on the note which is translated to be "Zhanfutai" and also "Yeyi"? In searching for the "Yeyi" name, I found several online references talking about Hangzhou-Yeyi companies, and this brought to mind that perhaps Yeyi was incorporated into the city of Hangzhou. Would you also be of the same mind?

 

Also, do you know of anything of the phrase "L Tu Sa Tung Shang Kea Tung"? THanks for any input!

[chinnotes]

Hello Dave,

thank you for welcoming me here...

 

well, after reading your question I looked again at the note and then tried google...successfully!

 

First I noticed that there are two locations named on the note:

 

1) 冶邑 (Yeyi). 邑 (yi) meant in those days a larger administrative unit, say "county" or "prefecture". Later most of the localities with names ending in "yi" had to change their names, as "yi" was dropped as an administrative unit and replaced by "xian". When changing their names they usually kept the remaining part of their names and combined it with another character. So I thought the new name for "Yeyi" will almost certainly contain the first syllable ("yi").

2) there is another locality given on the note: 陸家鋪 (Lujiapu). As can be seen from the last character 鋪 (pu), Lujiapu must be a very small village and is situated within "Yeyi". These villages often did not change their names.

 

So I tried google writing both 陸家鋪 and 冶 and I found that 冶邑 is now called 大冶縣 (Daye xian or county of Daye), which is situated in Hupei province! And Lujiapu still exists as a small village in that county.

 

Now your first question is answered...

 

As for the meaningless "western" words on the back of the note, I can only assume that the person who designed the note did not know any English. This was very often the case, and the result were sometimes meaningless words with partly reversed letters. As you mention on your website, also this note has one letter ('G') reversed, which can proof that the designer did not know how to write English...

 

Erwin

 

P.S.: In all my comments I will use the official pinyin system for romanization of Chinese characters. I never use the Wade-Giles romanization, which is virtually unknown in China. Only with the aid of the pinyin system I can write Chinese characters on my computer.....

[Dave]

Fascinating! I had no idea that there was any mandated name changes - I can see how easily confusing it can make things!

 

Thanks you very much for your prompt answer! Your expertise in the matter is very much appreciated.

[sonician]

So I tried google writing both 陸家鋪 and 冶 and I found that 冶邑 is now called 大冶縣 (Daye xian or county of Daye), which is situated in Hupei province! And Lujiapu still exists as a small village in that county.

 

haha..

 

My last name is Daye.

Too weird.

 

Thanks for the information on these! So interesting!