Bobb Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 I have a friend whose daughter was given a coin. The person giving the coin salvaged it from the French ship La Trompeuse, which was burned and sank in St. Thomas in 1683. The coin is silver, has one side that is blank and the other side has the following. A crown on top of a shield. There is a cap "B" on the left side of the shield and a cap "S" on the other. There may be something around the edge of the coin, but it is badly worn. The shield has 4 quadrants with an oval in the middle. Inside the oval are 3 fleur de leas, 2 on top with one centered underneath them. In the left top and right bottom quadrant are castle towers, while in the right top and left bottom there are what appear to be rampant lions with crowns. Can anyone tell me what this coin is, and an approximate value? Thanks for your time and help, Sincerely, Bobb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Hmmm... a picture would be worth a thousand words, but it sounds like a Spanish coin (Leon y Castile = the lions and castles on the arms) that was counterstamped for use in French colonies (the oval with fleurs-de-lis). Anyone out there with better knowledge of Spanish 17th century? (later edit) No, no counterstamp; but can anyone tell me when the fleurs-de-lis were added to the Spanish arms? Here's an 8 reales from early 18th century: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
constanius Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 The fleur appears on Spanish coins via the House of Bourbon. Philip V of Spain was also the Duke of Anjou in France, before Charles II bequeathed to him all of Spain in 1700. Spanish and Spanish colonial coins have the fleur as a group of three within the Bourbon escutcheon. (An escutcheon is a small shield added to an existing coat of arms, usually positioned somewhat above center within the larger design.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
constanius Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 The date of the sinking of the ship 1683 and the date the fleur was introduced to the Spanish arms 1700 is a problem. Charles II was the last Hapsburg king of Spain and ruled till 1700 and his arms had no fleur. EDITED A ship that sank in 1683 could not have a coin that did not exist till 1700 at the earliest. A mystery!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobb Posted February 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 So here is the best I can provide as far as a picture goes. Any help, as I said will be GREATLY appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 next Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 I've been searching for any Spanish XVII century coin with the fleur-de-lis inset, without success. Moreover, I've had difficulty finding any later coin with the exact form of crowned shield as on your photo, although there is one near match on this site: www.fuenterrebollo.com The coin, second from the bottom of the page, is from 1772... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobb Posted March 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 I've been searching for any Spanish XVII century coin with the fleur-de-lis inset, without success. Moreover, I've had difficulty finding any later coin with the exact form of crowned shield as on your photo, although there is one near match on this site: www.fuenterrebollo.com The coin, second from the bottom of the page, is from 1772... So I have finally been able to contact the person who salvaged the coin. It did NOT come from the 1683 wreck, but from the bottom of the same bay, in that area. So, it appears that the 1700's Spanish reale is most likely correct. Is there a source for finding out what the "B" means (vice the "M F" on the 1774 coin? Also, does anyone have a ROUGH estimate as to the value of such a coin? Thanks again for your time and help. Bobb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 Here's the closest I've been able to come up with: This is a 1774 1/2 real, 15 mm, 1.49 grams. The "S" to the left of the arms is the mintmark (here, S = Sevilla), the "CF" to the right is the mintmaster's initials. On your coin the "B" would seem to indicate the Burgos mint in Spain, although the only mintmaster's mark listed in my Krause & Mishler for Burgos is an "A." If your coin is a 1/2 real, it has been cut down considerably and should be tiny. The highest value for any similar coin in KM in good condition is $15.00. KM doesn't necessarily list all possible mints & mintmaster's marks, though... I'm wondering if what looks like an "S" on your coin might be part of another letter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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