Oval copper Indian Peace medal information sought

[marv]

I am compiling a census of the oval copper Indian Peace medals, i.e., the medals of presidents Hayes, Garfield, Arthur, Cleveland, and Harrison. I include only those medals struck by the US Mint during the 19th century. These would normally have light brown, mahogany, or chocolate finishes with proof surfaces and sharply struck, very high relief devices. I exclude the modern yellow bronze restrikes mostly struck in the 20th century which have matte surfaces and less distinct, lower relief devices. Many of the round yellow bronze IP medals are still available from the mint for $38. However, the oval yellow bronze IP medals are not currently being struck, but they are very available through ebay. On the other hand, genuine 19th century copper oval IP medals are very scarce with mintages less than 50. They are almost never found on ebay, but only available occasionally through auction houses. A nice oval copper IP medal can bring $3000-5000 at auction.

 

If you currently own such a medal, I would appreciate knowing where you got it, how much you paid for it, its condition and weight (if you know) in grains (or grams). You can send me a private message if you would like.

 

I already have data on medals from the "big" collections sold during the past 25 years such as Kessler-Spangenberger, Steinberg, Springfield, Dreyfuss, Schenkel, Ford and other more recent auctions by Heritage. I would appreciate any information on medals sold by Joe Levine in his Presidential Coin and Antique auctions, including weight, price realized, provenance, etc. since I don't have those catalogs.

 

The reason I'm trying to find this data is that there is no consensus on the exact mintage numbers outside of knowing that it was small. Carl Carlson and Michael Hodder are just two of the researchers that have attempted to compile data on the mintages. Robert Julian provided enormous amounts of mintage data in his well-respected reference on US Mint medals. However, even Julian admits that his data is based on incomplete information.

 

One of the dangers of this sort of endeavor is counting the same medals more than once. I have tried to use weight and provenance (source) to trace these medals. In many cases, auction descriptions include weight, and where this is done, I have been able to indentify unique offerings of these medals; however, many more recent auctions have dispensed with weights and don't include provenance, so it becomes increasingly difficult to ensure that I am not counting the same medal more than once. Where there is a picture, I try to compare a medal to others to establish identity if possible.

 

I own two or these 19th century copper medals obtained from the Ford XVIII auction.

Hayes Oval IP Medal

Garfield Oval IP medal

 

Here's an example of a Cleveland oval modern (1960's) yellow-bronze medal worth about $50-100:

[marv]

So nobody has any of these medals? Well I know they're rare.

[bill]

It is a wonderful series and fantastic collecting specialty, but I don't have the discretionary cash that would allow me to pursue them. At best, I buy the books and enjoy them on paper.

[Art]

I've never even seen on in real life. I've looked at pictures in a few auction catalogs. They look like a great collection item.