bobh Posted November 27, 2008 Report Share Posted November 27, 2008 Quite an obvious fake here ("Sammleranfertigung", indeed ... "Made for a collector" ). I suppose they didn't have the guts to say "Novodel" to this one: http://www.gmcoinart.de/shop/detailansicht...che=&von=27 Surprised that there was no image of the edge shown. But it wouldn't have made any difference, I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKB Posted November 27, 2008 Report Share Posted November 27, 2008 Quite an obvious fake here ("Sammleranfertigung", indeed ... "Made for a collector" ). I suppose they didn't have the guts to say "Novodel" to this one:http://www.gmcoinart.de/shop/detailansicht...che=&von=27 Surprised that there was no image of the edge shown. But it wouldn't have made any difference, I suppose. All that copper must be worth something, plus all that labor... :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennysky Posted November 27, 2008 Report Share Posted November 27, 2008 If someone gave you 9000 euros, I am sure you can do a better job. It was a horrible repro. All that copper must be worth something, plus all that labor... :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted November 27, 2008 Report Share Posted November 27, 2008 If someone gave you 9000 euros, I am sure you can do a better job. It was a horrible repro. But good enough to bring €9000. I'm a bit disappointed in the auctioneer. "Sammleranfertigung", in my opinion, is a weasel-word. A more accurate description might be "crude fake". I believe the correct word in Russian is "Fuflo". Unless the buyer has money to burn, it suggests that he/she does not know what a real (i.e. mint-made) novodel looks like and also does not understand what a slyly described (nudge, nudge, wink, wink) "collector-product" really is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennysky Posted November 28, 2008 Report Share Posted November 28, 2008 You are absolutely correct! But good enough to bring €9000. I'm a bit disappointed in the auctioneer. "Sammleranfertigung", in my opinion, is a weasel-word. A more accurate description might be "crude fake". I believe the correct word in Russian is "Fuflo". Unless the buyer has money to burn, it suggests that he/she does not know what a real (i.e. mint-made) novodel looks like and also does not understand what a slyly described (nudge, nudge, wink, wink) "collector-product" really is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savok Posted November 28, 2008 Report Share Posted November 28, 2008 Quite an obvious fake here ("Sammleranfertigung", indeed ... "Made for a collector" ). I suppose they didn't have the guts to say "Novodel" to this one:http://www.gmcoinart.de/shop/detailansicht...che=&von=27 Surprised that there was no image of the edge shown. But it wouldn't have made any difference, I suppose. Will the auctioneer take responsibility and provide a refund? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKB Posted November 28, 2008 Report Share Posted November 28, 2008 Will the auctioneer take responsibility and provide a refund? Unless it was the seller who wanted to bid it up and ended up with it :-) Then I doubt they will return the auction house premium... In the past, GM was one of the few European auction houses that could really separate russian fakes from originals, unless very well made. I guess that is also in the past now. Greed is a marvelous thing, but why would an auction house tarnish its reputation for a measly few grand?! Their description of the lot negates their possible claim of an error. Although, they may always claim that the fake is so obvious that it should not fool anyone... I wonder if there is not more to the story. Could it be that the consignor put in a condition that this item must be sold along with other coins he or she consigns? I doubt we will ever know that. Being that I am primarily interested in jefimoks now, I only paid attention to that part of the sale. From what I remember I had very serious doubts about most jefimoks sold there. Although the quality of the fakes, if they are fakes indeed (Cannot be certain unless take a closer look), is vastly superior to the fake jefimoks sold at Kunker's last sale. Any well established auction house (over 10 sales w/ russian material) comes to mind that did not recently sell russian fakes? Or, at least, no easily determinable fakes? I would vote for Swiss Bank (but I could have missed something...). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE MOULDING Posted November 28, 2008 Report Share Posted November 28, 2008 Not the first time Gorny has sold one of these From Sale 86 (October 1997) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE MOULDING Posted November 28, 2008 Report Share Posted November 28, 2008 Second Image Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savok Posted November 28, 2008 Report Share Posted November 28, 2008 Not the first time Gorny has sold one of these From Sale 86 (October 1997) Well, now it can be said that they have made this fake "legitimate" - perhaps the recent buyer saw that it was auctioned before by the same house and it helped soothe any misgivings he/she may have had bidding on it. It isn't a proper substitute for due diligence though. But it would strengthen a legal claim against the auction house to have that history put forward as evidence in conjunction with an expert's testimony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted November 28, 2008 Report Share Posted November 28, 2008 Not the first time Gorny has sold one of these From Sale 86 (October 1997) Even to someone who does not know a single word of German, the meaning of "Kopie" in that lot description should be reasonably clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE MOULDING Posted November 28, 2008 Report Share Posted November 28, 2008 I should point out that this is a different version of the same 'copy'. Not exactly the same (lettering is different). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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