STEVE MOULDING Posted September 28, 2008 Report Share Posted September 28, 2008 http://www.numismat.ru/cgi-bin/auction.cgi...=53&lot=130 Haven't seen one of these before. $120,000-$160,000 estimate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thee_Immortal_One Posted September 28, 2008 Report Share Posted September 28, 2008 And its an overstrike of a 2 Kopeck. You know, the drum and cannon type. I'll check petty-cash to see if it is within my mad-money limit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE MOULDING Posted September 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2008 And its an overstrike of a 2 Kopeck. You know, the drum and cannon type. As it should be. If it wasn't, I'd be suspicious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gxseries Posted September 28, 2008 Report Share Posted September 28, 2008 Is there a possibility that it is overstruck over Sadagura para - 3 dengi? This time I really have no clue what the orientations are like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennysky Posted September 28, 2008 Report Share Posted September 28, 2008 This is one important numismatic find for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE MOULDING Posted September 29, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2008 Is there a possibility that it is overstruck over Sadagura para - 3 dengi? This time I really have no clue what the orientations are like. The "DBE" on the underlying 1762 2K is clearly visible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKB Posted September 29, 2008 Report Share Posted September 29, 2008 Wonder if it sells... I do not remember any copper in this condition selling for that kind of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gxseries Posted September 29, 2008 Report Share Posted September 29, 2008 Steve, just to confirm that I am seeing the right things, is the letter "D" of "dbe" is right above the horse's tail, in particular where the corrosion bit is? The reason why I said the para coin is because of the distinct box figure. I thought I saw I see box lines hidden behind the monogram, in particular above the huge strike that crosses the monogram. BKB, weren't copper plates and the Sestroretsk ruble sold for some insane amount of money at one stage? I reckon if the first Ekaterinburg copper plate was ever to be auctioned, it will break all records? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE MOULDING Posted September 29, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2008 Steve, just to confirm that I am seeing the right things, is the letter "D" of "dbe" is right above the horse's tail, in particular where the corrosion bit is? The reason why I said the para coin is because of the distinct box figure. I thought I saw I see box lines hidden behind the monogram, in particular above the huge strike that crosses the monogram. Hi gx. No, the DBE is on the obverse under the base of monogram. Big striking letters. You have to rotate anticlockwise 200 degrees (clockwise 160) to get the orientation right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gxseries Posted September 29, 2008 Report Share Posted September 29, 2008 Oh duh Thanks for setting me straight Steve. From my understanding, weren't most 1788 and 89 MM kopek overstruck on Sadagura coinages? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE MOULDING Posted September 29, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2008 From my understanding, weren't most 1788 and 89 MM kopek overstruck on Sadagura coinages? No. While overstruck Sadagura does carry MM, the converse is not true: If it's MM doesn't mean it's Sadagura. In fact most MMs from then would have been overstrikes of accumulated Peter III copper as it filtered back to the mint over the years. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE MOULDING Posted October 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2008 Wonder if it sells... I do not remember any copper in this condition selling for that kind of money. 1764 Avesta 5K sold at Kuenker this week. $155,000. Wow! http://www.kuenker.de/onlineAuctionOrderDe...95&los=8295 This one is much nicer than the Brekke example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gxseries Posted October 11, 2008 Report Share Posted October 11, 2008 115,000 euros!!! ;) ;) What are the odds of someone finding this in a junk coin lot and auctioning it off at that price Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted October 11, 2008 Report Share Posted October 11, 2008 What are the odds of someone finding this in a junk coin lot Slim to none Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE MOULDING Posted October 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2008 Wonder if it sells... I do not remember any copper in this condition selling for that kind of money. Sold today for 3MM Roubles ($120,000), at least that's what the Prices Realized says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKB Posted October 14, 2008 Report Share Posted October 14, 2008 Sold today for 3MM Roubles ($120,000), at least that's what the Prices Realized says. I know, i know... I stopped wondering after 1764 em sold for what it sold on kunker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hussulo Posted October 14, 2008 Report Share Posted October 14, 2008 A couple of questions: I take it the 1764 em 4 over 3 five kopecks isn't as rare? Are there any different varieties of the 1764 em five kopecks? where the e and the m are further spaced apart? Thanks, Hus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE MOULDING Posted October 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2008 A couple of questions: I take it the 1764 em 4 over 3 five kopecks isn't as rare? Are there any different varieties of the 1764 em five kopecks? where the e and the m are further spaced apart? Thanks, Hus Emm...you may well be asking a completely different question, but just in case there is any confusion...the 1764 referred to in this thread was a 1764EM Avesta 5K, extremely rare. Sold for $155,000 last week. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hussulo Posted October 14, 2008 Report Share Posted October 14, 2008 Emm...you may well be asking a completely different question, but just in case there is any confusion...the 1764 referred to in this thread was a 1764EM Avesta 5K, extremely rare. Sold for $155,000 last week. Steve Sorry Steve, I know next to nothing when it comes to Russian coins, but I always find the threads interesting. What makes this coin so rare? is it a trial strike? and what is meant by "Avesta"? Thank you. Hus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted October 14, 2008 Report Share Posted October 14, 2008 ...the 1764 referred to in this thread was a 1764EM Avesta 5K... For anyone who might be unfamiliar with the Avesta 5k coins, that's "Avesta" as in the Avesta copper mint - in Sweden. These are officially made Swedish forgeries of Russian 5k coins (rather like the officially made Napoleonic forgeries of Russian paper money made by the French in 1812). The Avesta coins can be distinguished from the Russian originals by stylistic differences, most notably the style of the "7" used in the date. The Avesta coins were struck with different dates. The 1764 is an exceptionally rare date (none of the Avesta issues are common and all are in demand). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hussulo Posted October 14, 2008 Report Share Posted October 14, 2008 I see. Thanks for clearing that up Grivna. $155,000 for a forgery. Wow. I suppose they were officially made, but wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted October 14, 2008 Report Share Posted October 14, 2008 I see. Thanks for clearing that up Grivna. $155,000 for a forgery. Wow. I suppose they were officially made, but wow. One of these was sold in Dmitry Markov's New York Sale a couple of years ago ... I believe it brought only $2,000 - $3,000? Of course, although all the dates are rare, some are rarer than others... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted October 14, 2008 Report Share Posted October 14, 2008 I see. Thanks for clearing that up Grivna. $155,000 for a forgery. Wow. I suppose they were officially made, but wow. An Avesta 5k of any date is a collector's prize and historically significant as part of the war between Russia and Sweden in 1788. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hussulo Posted October 14, 2008 Report Share Posted October 14, 2008 An Avesta 5k of any date is a collector's prize and historically significant as part of the war between Russia and Sweden in 1788. I have heard of the Russo-Swedish War, but why did Sweden mint 5 Rouble coins? was it to pay/ bribe the Russian people or forces? and why has so few survived? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted October 15, 2008 Report Share Posted October 15, 2008 I have heard of the Russo-Swedish War, but why did Sweden mint 5 Rouble coins? was it to pay/ bribe the Russian people or forces? and why has so few survived? They were 5 kopeks (copper) coins, not 5 roubles (gold) coins. They were struck in 1788 in Avesta under the Swedish king Gustav III for use by his troops in Russia. Known dates of the Swedish forgeries are 1764, 1778 and 1787. I don't know why so few have survived. Maybe one of the copper specialists here can provide a better answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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