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A 1789MM Kopeck shows up


STEVE MOULDING
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Steve, just to confirm that I am seeing the right things, is the letter "D" of "dbe" is right above the horse's tail, in particular where the corrosion bit is? The reason why I said the para coin is because of the distinct box figure. I thought I saw I see box lines hidden behind the monogram, in particular above the huge strike that crosses the monogram.

 

BKB, weren't copper plates and the Sestroretsk ruble sold for some insane amount of money at one stage? I reckon if the first Ekaterinburg copper plate was ever to be auctioned, it will break all records?

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Steve, just to confirm that I am seeing the right things, is the letter "D" of "dbe" is right above the horse's tail, in particular where the corrosion bit is? The reason why I said the para coin is because of the distinct box figure. I thought I saw I see box lines hidden behind the monogram, in particular above the huge strike that crosses the monogram.

Hi gx. No, the DBE is on the obverse under the base of monogram. Big striking letters. You have to rotate anticlockwise 200 degrees (clockwise 160) to get the orientation right.

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From my understanding, weren't most 1788 and 89 MM kopek overstruck on Sadagura coinages? :ninja:

 

No. While overstruck Sadagura does carry MM, the converse is not true: If it's MM doesn't mean it's Sadagura. In fact most MMs from then would have been overstrikes of accumulated Peter III copper as it filtered back to the mint over the years.

 

Steve

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  • 2 weeks later...
Wonder if it sells... I do not remember any copper in this condition selling for that kind of money.

1764 Avesta 5K sold at Kuenker this week. $155,000. Wow!

 

http://www.kuenker.de/onlineAuctionOrderDe...95&los=8295

 

This one is much nicer than the Brekke example.

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A couple of questions:

 

I take it the 1764 em 4 over 3 five kopecks isn't as rare?

 

Are there any different varieties of the 1764 em five kopecks? where the e and the m are further spaced apart?

 

Thanks,

Hus

Emm...you may well be asking a completely different question, but just in case there is any confusion...the 1764 referred to in this thread was a 1764EM Avesta 5K, extremely rare. Sold for $155,000 last week.

 

Steve

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Emm...you may well be asking a completely different question, but just in case there is any confusion...the 1764 referred to in this thread was a 1764EM Avesta 5K, extremely rare. Sold for $155,000 last week.

 

Steve

 

Sorry Steve,

 

I know next to nothing when it comes to Russian coins, but I always find the threads interesting.

 

What makes this coin so rare? is it a trial strike? and what is meant by "Avesta"?

 

Thank you.

 

Hus

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...the 1764 referred to in this thread was a 1764EM Avesta 5K...

 

For anyone who might be unfamiliar with the Avesta 5k coins, that's "Avesta" as in the Avesta copper mint - in Sweden.

 

These are officially made Swedish forgeries of Russian 5k coins (rather like the officially made Napoleonic forgeries of Russian paper money made by the French in 1812).

 

The Avesta coins can be distinguished from the Russian originals by stylistic differences, most notably the style of the "7" used in the date.

 

The Avesta coins were struck with different dates. The 1764 is an exceptionally rare date (none of the Avesta issues are common and all are in demand).

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I see. Thanks for clearing that up Grivna.

 

:ninja: $155,000 for a forgery. Wow. I suppose they were officially made, but wow.

One of these was sold in Dmitry Markov's New York Sale a couple of years ago ... I believe it brought only $2,000 - $3,000? Of course, although all the dates are rare, some are rarer than others...

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I see. Thanks for clearing that up Grivna.

 

:ninja: $155,000 for a forgery. Wow. I suppose they were officially made, but wow.

An Avesta 5k of any date is a collector's prize and historically significant as part of the war between Russia and Sweden in 1788.

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An Avesta 5k of any date is a collector's prize and historically significant as part of the war between Russia and Sweden in 1788.

 

I have heard of the Russo-Swedish War, but why did Sweden mint 5 Rouble coins? was it to pay/ bribe the Russian people or forces? and why has so few survived?

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I have heard of the Russo-Swedish War, but why did Sweden mint 5 Rouble coins? was it to pay/ bribe the Russian people or forces? and why has so few survived?

They were 5 kopeks (copper) coins, not 5 roubles (gold) coins.

 

They were struck in 1788 in Avesta under the Swedish king Gustav III for use by his troops in Russia. Known dates of the Swedish forgeries are 1764, 1778 and 1787.

 

I don't know why so few have survived. Maybe one of the copper specialists here can provide a better answer.

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