The end of price craziness?

[Oldman]

I do believe that in 1897 there were gold Proof coins minted for all 3 denominations 5, 7 1/2 and 15 Rubles. Buying such a coin may be a lifetime opportunity. I only used to see 1897 5 Rubles in Proof. I also believe that 15 Ruble Patterns that have rarity R4 or so also could be minted as Proofs. Again, coins are very rare...

 

I am a believer as well. But as they say " seeing is believing". I have not seen 15 (or 7.5) rub in proof yet. I may be completely wrong here, though.

[IgorS]

Dear grivna1726,

Mr IgorS will reply to you but I wanted to mentioned that there is no known record of such minting. If it were the case, we would have seen them before, however, they have surfaced pretty recently.

 

Best regards,

 

Just to add for informational purposes. In the Soviet time the known re-strikings are of 1915 rouble, Gangut 1914 rouble, 1916 pattern copper. These coins were sold by Soviet Filately Association to the west for hard currency.

[IgorS]

I am a believer as well. But as they say " seeing is believing". I have not seen 15 (or 7.5) rub in proof yet. I may be completely wrong here, though.

 

FYI - Kazakov catalog does not mention proof strikings for pattern 15 roubles in valuations. Only business UNC striking has valuation and BTW it is 200,000.

[WCO]

FYI - Kazakov catalog does not mention proof strikings for pattern 15 roubles in valuations. Only business UNC striking has valuation and BTW it is 200,000.

 

And did Kazakov ever handled such a pattern? The problem is that many modern authors who wrote catalogs on coins in reality never handled many of them, especially the rarest once. Other Patterns of that era, like Imperials and their fractions were minted in Proof, so my guess is that many other Patterns (of that time) were made the same way. When we finally see a catalogue of Russian Proof coins? Never?

 

WCO

[Oldman]

And did Kazakov ever handled such a pattern? The problem is that many modern authors who wrote catalogs on coins in reality never handled many of them, especially the rarest once.

It does not really matter if Mr Kazakov personally handled such material. His book is an academic research. After all, not all of the scientists were able to measure temperature of the Sun

It would be nice, of course, if he had a chance to see all the coins he placed in the catalog but...

Other Patterns of that era, like Imperials and their fractions were minted in Proof, so my guess is that all the rest in Patterns (of that time) was made the same way. When we finally see a catalogue of Russian Proof coins? Never?

 

WCO

 

You are a dreamer...

[RW Julian]

Is there any chance that there might be novodels made in Soviet times?

In 1973 I had the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Spasskii in person at the Hermitage. I

asked him about one of the Nicholas II pattern gold coins of the 1890s (not the 15

roubles) with a plain edge. I suggested that it might have been struck in the 1920s

for private sale to a wealthy Western collector and he answered that he could not

tell me anything “officially.” He did not, however, say anything further but it was my

impression that my guess was not too far off the mark.

 

RWJ

[grivna1726]

In 1973 I had the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Spasskii in person at the Hermitage. I

asked him about one of the Nicholas II pattern gold coins of the 1890s (not the 15

roubles) with a plain edge. I suggested that it might have been struck in the 1920s

for private sale to a wealthy Western collector and he answered that he could not

tell me anything “officially.” He did not, however, say anything further but it was my

impression that my guess was not too far off the mark.

 

RWJ

Thank you to you, RWJ, and to IgorS and Oldman as well, for your replies to my question.

 

As IgorS points out, there are known Tsarist restrikes made during the Soviet period. I wondered if there might be others which are not recorded (such as the gold coin under discussion here).

 

Dr. Spasskii's cryptic reply to you suggests that he knew of such Soviet-era restrikes, but did not feel at liberty to confirm the fact. (Otherwise, why would he not just say there weren't any such coins?)

 

So, there seems to be no clear answer either way (remaining aware of the fact that it is nearly, if not entirely, impossible to prove a negative).

[grivna1726]

That price does seem rather steep.

 

Yet it is followed by 2 more examples in roughly similar condition which brought about one-fifth or so of that amount.

 

Maybe that one is a rare variety? I see nothing that is that special about it, so what am I missing?

This is the 1886 rouble that brought € 16.100,00 (over $20,000)

http://www.gmcoinart.de/shop/index.php3?Au...ObID=1046110362

 

The one thing we do not see here is the edge. Maybe there was something unusual there?

[altyn]

How different is this coin (Bitkin 60) from the pattern coin by Griliches (Bitkin no. 225) if you do not see the edge?

 

Sorry that I am repeating myself. The Griliches pattern coin, that I mentioned above, is R4 and it seems that the only way (for me at least) to distinguish it from a common Large Head is to look at the rim.

[grivna1726]

Sorry that I am repeating myself. The Griliches pattern coin, that I mentioned above, is R4 and it seems that the only way (for me at least) to distinguish it from a common Large Head is to look at the rim.

Sorry that it was necessary for you to repeat yourself before the idea sunk in. Do you think this was the pattern? Did you by any chance see the edge?

 

If it was the pattern, then the price realized is no longer so mysterious.

[altyn]

Sorry that it was necessary for you to repeat yourself before the idea sunk in. Do you think this was the pattern? Did you by any chance see the edge?

 

...it is merely a hypothesis.

[Oldman]

Oldman, you should close your prediction business.

I am in Munich right now. When they will become available, check out the results of Gorny sale.

The price drop was cancelled. (At the same time check the results of Palombo and Kunker).

 

 

Is everyone still certain that the "price drop was cancelled" ??

I'm not. More to it: two auction houses in Europe have just notified me that they could not get paid for the items I'd had them auctioned and it might take for awhile for me to get paid (for your information: about 70-80% of the coins I sent to them were Russian).

 

It would be very funny if it was not sad..

[Kit]

Is everyone still certain that the "price drop was cancelled" ??

I'm not. More to it: two auction houses in Europe have just notified me that they could not get paid for the items I'd had them auctioned and it might take for awhile for me to get paid (for your information: about 70-80% of the coins I sent to them were Russian).

 

It would be very funny if it was not sad..

 

That explains to me why I received the invoice from Gorny&Mosch with a lot which I thought I didn't win.

I checked the results few hours after they have been published.

After I've got the invoice, I looked at the results again and found that the price has changed in my favor.