bobh Posted October 12, 2008 Report Share Posted October 12, 2008 The lesson so far seems to be that investment in the Russian Stock market 2 Years ago has lost quite a bit. That same investment in rare Russian numismatics has held strong. Coins will continue to be vacuumed back to the Rodina. This is my uneducated opinion. Not only that, but people who are losing money in the stock market will be looking for places to reinvest whatever money they take out of that, and things like gold and silver as well as rare coins still look like good investments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gxseries Posted October 12, 2008 Report Share Posted October 12, 2008 Investors are complete idiots as well as being selfish. Last time when I had a friend who does stocks talked about how oil price should hit over 200USD because of demand, I was angry as it was pure speculation. It was the common people that suffered. People couldn't afford to run their cars, prices of EVERYTHING rose, and oops, first thing people lost was their home. Oh wait, we can STILL buy more things going bankrupt! How fantastic!! It's called credit!!! No wait, banks aren't magical afterall. There are things where investors should just back off completely. To be honest, the whole thing of prices going up was nothing but a scam. Sure, prices of metal / stock might have gone up and investors are bloody happy but there is always someone that loses in the game. Not many won from it. Anyways being sidetracked, I don't believe it's realistic that prices of all Russian coins are going up. There are some that have went down, in particular the low grade coins. Sure, the high grade coins will be in strong demand but what do investors expect? More than 10% per annum on everything? That would be bloody fantastic but unreal. Really, it would be nice that they knew what they are buying but some can't be bothered as long as they can get their hands on something for their portfolio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldman Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 Not only that, but people who are losing money in the stock market will be looking for places to reinvest whatever money they take out of that, and things like gold and silver as well as rare coins still look like good investments. About 15 months ago , I had a courage to predict price drop (or, at least, stagnation) for Russian material in the fall of 2007. I should admit, I was wrong . It's happenning in the fall of 2008. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 About 15 months ago , I had a courage to predict price drop (or, at least, stagnation) for Russian material in the fall of 2007. I should admit, I was wrong . It's happenning in the fall of 2008. I have seen no proof of this. Perhaps an example, Oldman? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgorS Posted October 18, 2008 Report Share Posted October 18, 2008 About 15 months ago , I had a courage to predict price drop (or, at least, stagnation) for Russian material in the fall of 2007. I should admit, I was wrong . It's happenning in the fall of 2008. Oldman, you should close your prediction business. I am in Munich right now. When they will become available, check out the results of Gorny sale. The price drop was cancelled. (At the same time check the results of Palombo and Kunker). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marv Posted October 19, 2008 Report Share Posted October 19, 2008 Oldman, you should close your prediction business. I am in Munich right now. When they will become available, check out the results of Gorny sale. The price drop was cancelled. (At the same time check the results of Palombo and Kunker). Looked at the Künker auction; anything a bit nice sold for between three and 10 times estimates. The Swedish Avesta mint 5k went for EU115,000!!! Must be a record for a copper coin. There weren't a lot of super coins in the auction, but the nicest coins went for almost 10 times the estimate, so it looks like there are still some folks with money looking for Russian coins. Marv Finnley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCO Posted October 19, 2008 Report Share Posted October 19, 2008 ... check out the results of Gorny sale. The price drop was cancelled.... I also see prices on Russian coins are sliding a bit, especially on common material, medium grades, and common dates. No need to look at Gorny auction results to know this. WCO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldman Posted October 19, 2008 Report Share Posted October 19, 2008 Oldman, you should close your prediction business. I am in Munich right now. When they will become available, check out the results of Gorny sale. The price drop was cancelled. (At the same time check the results of Palombo and Kunker). Igors, thanks for pointing out to the Gorny and other auctions. I am very well aware of them and the results do not contrudict with my idea at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKB Posted October 20, 2008 Report Share Posted October 20, 2008 Igors,thanks for pointing out to the Gorny and other auctions. I am very well aware of them and the results do not contrudict with my idea at all. I believe that rare coins in decent condition continue to climb the price chart, while the more common coins in average condition are not (at auction). On ebay, on the other hand, average material brings abnormal prices. Even damaged coins sell better than same coins in better condition 2 years ago. I do not know about a price drop... But, I hope you are right and we would be able to buy great stuff at 2001 price level. I am all for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgorS Posted October 20, 2008 Report Share Posted October 20, 2008 Igors,thanks for pointing out to the Gorny and other auctions. I am very well aware of them and the results do not contrudict with my idea at all. Oldman, I probably misunderstood your idea. If you were talking about medium-low to low grade coins, then you are absolutely correct. Based on the auctions I mentioned earlier very nice coins are still going up. At Gorny I wanted to buy a nice 1734 Anna rouble. Well, it went for 15000 EURO!!!!!!!!!! Can anyone comprehend that? Not me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldman Posted October 20, 2008 Report Share Posted October 20, 2008 Oldman, I probably misunderstood your idea. If you were talking about medium-low to low grade coins, then you are absolutely correct. Based on the auctions I mentioned earlier very nice coins are still going up. At Gorny I wanted to buy a nice 1734 Anna rouble. Well, it went for 15000 EURO!!!!!!!!!! Can anyone comprehend that? Not me. I hoped it would go for up to 5000 euros ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgorS Posted October 20, 2008 Report Share Posted October 20, 2008 I hoped it would go for up to 5000 euros ! My hope was at 10,000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldman Posted October 20, 2008 Report Share Posted October 20, 2008 My hope was at 10,000. It really exceeded my expectations. Probably some big "guns" wanted it badly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbq2 Posted October 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2008 It really exceeded my expectations. Probably some big "guns" wanted it badly Where can I see the results of this auction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgorS Posted October 20, 2008 Report Share Posted October 20, 2008 Where can I see the results of this auction? I think they are already posted on www.sixbid.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marv Posted October 20, 2008 Report Share Posted October 20, 2008 Where can I see the results of this auction? Remember, it just takes TWO people who have lots of money and really want something to drive the price up; OR it could be a seller's "representative" who is covering the coins at the auction. 99% of the people at the auction may not want the coin at those prices, but if only two do, you will have very strong prices, and with nice material, it's apparent, after looking at the Maison Palombo auction, that there are still at least two rich collectors who want nice coins and can afford it. When there are no longer two people, then prices will come down. My guess is, that time will not come for a while. If the economy really slows down, and you have a few auctions of very nice material that don't achieve high prices, then perhaps gradually prices overall will moderate, but it's going to take a while until people are convinced that Russian coins are not that desirable anymore. If I were going to sell my very high end Russian coins today, I would want to make sure that the "right" people are bidding on them, i.e., get them to the right auction house that has the rich clientele. Marv Finnley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbq2 Posted October 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2008 I think they are already posted on www.sixbid.com Not yet - http://www.sixbid.com/nav.php?p=completed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbq2 Posted October 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2008 Not yet - http://www.sixbid.com/nav.php?p=completed Found it: http://www.gmcoinart.de/homepage/zeige_elisten.php?AuID=88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marv Posted October 20, 2008 Report Share Posted October 20, 2008 Found it:http://www.gmcoinart.de/homepage/index.php3?sprache=en $22,000 for an AU 1886 Rouble?? (lot 8842) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RW Julian Posted October 21, 2008 Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 $22,000 for an AU 1886 Rouble?? (lot 8842) And it’s the Large Head variety, not the rare Small Head! RWJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted October 21, 2008 Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 $22,000 for an AU 1886 Rouble?? (lot 8842) That price does seem rather steep. Yet it is followed by 2 more examples in roughly similar condition which brought about one-fifth or so of that amount. Maybe that one is a rare variety? I see nothing that is that special about it, so what am I missing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RW Julian Posted October 21, 2008 Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 That price does seem rather steep. Yet it is followed by 2 more examples in roughly similar condition which brought about one-fifth or so of that amount. Maybe that one is a rare variety? I see nothing that is that special about it, so what am I missing? The 1886 Large Head rouble is scarce but they do show up from time to time. On the other hand the Small Head variety is an extreme rarity. For 1887 the Small Head version is rare though not so much as the 1886 Small Head. It took me several years to find the 1887 Small Head but I never found the 1886 with this head. RWJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted October 21, 2008 Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 The 1886 Large Head rouble is scarce but they do show up from time to time. Onthe other hand the Small Head variety is an extreme rarity. For 1887 the Small Head version is rare though not so much as the 1886 Small Head. It took me several years to find the 1887 Small Head but I never found the 1886 with this head. RWJ Thank you for the reply. I collect more by design type and not so much by die variety, so I probably miss things that leap off the page to others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldman Posted October 21, 2008 Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 That price does seem rather steep. Yet it is followed by 2 more examples in roughly similar condition which brought about one-fifth or so of that amount. Maybe that one is a rare variety? I see nothing that is that special about it, so what am I missing? Yeah. What are we ALL missing here? What is so special about this particular coin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted October 21, 2008 Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 What we are not missing is not the end of price craziness... But if the craziness is limited to extremely high grade and high rarity coins, that is ok by me.. let them fight it out. And leave the ugly, unloved, treasures for the common folk bargain hunters like me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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