BKB Posted August 31, 2008 Report Share Posted August 31, 2008 I am trying to figure out what is wrong with letter "R" in the word "imperatrica" Looks like a corrected error, but could be a die break... Looks like the vertical line extends to high up and ends like an "I" What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennysky Posted August 31, 2008 Report Share Posted August 31, 2008 Clash with the edge, uneven strike, ex-jewelry? Hard to say without holding it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKB Posted August 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2008 Clash with the edge, uneven strike, ex-jewelry? Hard to say without holding it. What is "clash with the edge"? Uneven strike does not explain the fact that the letter is about .5 mm taller than the other letters... Rather than calling it ex-jewelry -- call it a fake and be done with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCO Posted August 31, 2008 Report Share Posted August 31, 2008 Looks like die chip to me. Nothing exiting. IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gxseries Posted August 31, 2008 Report Share Posted August 31, 2008 Possible lamination issue? That does explain the planchet flaw after the P for "epa". It's quite difficult to believe if that's a scratch / damage and leaving a "flat" surface of where the missing "epa" text is supposed to be at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennysky Posted August 31, 2008 Report Share Posted August 31, 2008 Not a fake for sure. Striking issue of some sort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKB Posted August 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2008 It is not exciting either way. I did not buy that coin because of this anomaly. Just did not look like a die break to me -- the vertical line is too well defined to be a likely product of a die break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RW Julian Posted August 31, 2008 Report Share Posted August 31, 2008 I am trying to figure out what is wrong with letter "R" in the word "imperatrica" Looks like a corrected error, but could be a die break... Looks like the vertical line extends to high up and ends like an "I" What do you think? I see no problems. Letters were punched in by hand on these dies and each letter usually consisted of several parts. That the letter P is too close to the edge perhaps simply means that the person punching the lettering was just careless. RWJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKB Posted August 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2008 I see no problems. Letters were punched in by hand on these dies andeach letter usually consisted of several parts. That the letter P is too close to the edge perhaps simply means that the person punching the lettering was just careless. RWJ Letter "T" is about 2mm in hight (as should be) Letter "P" is about 2.5 mm tall. Thus, either a die break, or a corrected error of some sort -- "I" changed to "P", or the vertical line punched in twice, or some other "negligent" act of an engraver... Very hard to tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennysky Posted August 31, 2008 Report Share Posted August 31, 2008 Prior to minting, some workers got a bit drunk, thus the abnormalities/ Just kidding! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCO Posted August 31, 2008 Report Share Posted August 31, 2008 IMHO it can not be careless letter punching since upper part of letter "R" ends not on a die that struck the coin. Letter "R" is made of two parts, vertical line and half circle. So what we see may be only result of metal movement during striking that resulted in plastic deformation of half circle. It may happen when there is a small die chip (small fragment of die metal broken off from the die) above letter "R". Coin's metal flowing into the resulting space deformed upper part of Russian letter "R". It also could be due to laminations (as noted by gxseries) but it seems for me a bit less likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted August 31, 2008 Report Share Posted August 31, 2008 That the letter P is too close to the edge perhaps simply means that the person punching the lettering was just careless.RWJ To me, it looks like the "І" punch used to make the second (bold) "Р" in "ІМПЕРАТРИЦА" is taller than the others. The base of the letter is in alignment with those of the other letters, yet appears to extend much closer to the edge. The upper part of the letter appears (at least, to me) to be too regular and well-defined to be a cud. That suggests that a different, larger punch was used, perhaps by accident or possibly by design. We know that the Moscow poltina of Peter III had deliberately differing characteristics used to distinguish one die pair from another (and therefore the press and workers who made it). Is it possible that something similar is shown here? Complicating the issue is what appears to be either a planchet flaw or some foreign matter (grease and dirt?) present during striking which appears to extend almost all the way though the word "ІМПЕРАТРИЦА" (being most prominent with the depression on the bold letters). I'm not sure what happened with the bold "Р" in "ІМПЕРАТРИЦА". It might just be some distortion caused by being so close to the edge, but it does look to me like a different, larger "І" punch was used to make the second (bold) "Р" in "ІМПЕРАТРИЦА" for whatever reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCO Posted August 31, 2008 Report Share Posted August 31, 2008 The questions here are. Was diameter of the die bigger, same or smaller than diameter of the coin? If it was smaller, is there on a coin line that shows what was diameter of the die? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKB Posted August 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2008 grivna1726 said: "To me, it looks like the "І" punch used to make the second (bold) "Р" in "ІМПЕРАТРИЦА" is taller than the others. The base of the letter is in alignment with those of the other letters, yet appears to extend much closer to the edge." That what it looks like to me too. All in all, nothing special or historically important -- just trying to keep me occupied in the absence of new interesting coins. Another thing is Anna's face on this coin... Does it look a bit German to anyone? I always wanted to buy this type, and now I finally have a chance to study it. Forgive me if I am boring anyone to death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbq2 Posted September 1, 2008 Report Share Posted September 1, 2008 I think I see a definite metal flow up from the semi-circle part of P, which I guess means that everyone it right - the letter was so tall it almost went of the edge of the die, and the thin border between the letter and the edge finally collapsed. A nice coin by the way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennysky Posted September 1, 2008 Report Share Posted September 1, 2008 Considering where Anna grew-up, she probably did end-up more german:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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