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Never saw such a ridiculous auction


savok

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Well... one is a common half dollar that's coloured gold. That's Gotta be worth some money right there!

 

Then there's the Swedish coin. That's another common coin, so it bumps the price up by several thousand.

 

That silver Ruble looks like it's worn out. Let's call it Pre-washed? Tested? Move-in Ready? An expensive coin for sure!

 

The only one worth anything is the Diana commemorative, and frankly I wouldn't give more than about $20 for it. I regret the tragedy and the scandal and all of that, but I'm just not interested in rehashing it all with a new commem. every year.

 

And so, all of that adds up to $90,000! Someone was really hopeful, or they are really bad at math in changing over currencies.

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Well... one is a common half dollar that's coloured gold. That's Gotta be worth some money right there!

 

Then there's the Swedish coin. That's another common coin, so it bumps the price up by several thousand.

 

That silver Ruble looks like it's worn out. Let's call it Pre-washed? Tested? Move-in Ready? An expensive coin for sure!

 

The only one worth anything is the Diana commemorative, and frankly I wouldn't give more than about $20 for it. I regret the tragedy and the scandal and all of that, but I'm just not interested in rehashing it all with a new commem. every year.

 

And so, all of that adds up to $90,000! Someone was really hopeful, or they are really bad at math in changing over currencies.

On the bright side, the seller is offering free shipping!

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The price is a product of demand and supply. If CoinPeople who are hungry for Russian coins now would just hold buying Russian coins on eBay for one month - Russian coin prices will reduce or fall. The time will show if the current prices are going to stay around. Remember mutual fund crisis a few ears ago. The one still can enjoy low mutual fund stock prices till now. A good crush of a coin market is what is required to find out a current price for Russian coins. It may appear that after a few years no one will pay as much money for coins anymore.

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The price is a product of demand and supply. If CoinPeople who are hungry for Russian coins now would just hold buying Russian coins on eBay for one month - Russian coin prices will reduce or fall. The time will show if the current prices are going to stay around. Remember mutual fund crisis a few ears ago. The one still can enjoy low mutual fund stock prices till now. A good crush of a coin market is what is required to find out a current price for Russian coins. It may appear that after a few years no one will pay as much money for coins anymore.

 

Interesting topic... Coins are not mutual fund stock. There is this need to improve ones collection, which is fulfilled at any cost by a true collector (read "crazy person addicted to these shiny pieces of metal") While I tend to agree that the price level for common coins is a bit too high, and rises too fast for comfort, the price of rare coins in decent condition is nowhere near the top end of the curve. Are the prices being artificially driven up? -- yes. Will the market for true rarities collapse? -- I seriously doubt it. There is simply not enough supply to accomplish that end. Thus, I would stay away from common low quality material if your collecting idea is mainly investment.

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The price is a product of demand and supply. If CoinPeople who are hungry for Russian coins now would just hold buying Russian coins on eBay for one month - Russian coin prices will reduce or fall. The time will show if the current prices are going to stay around. Remember mutual fund crisis a few ears ago. The one still can enjoy low mutual fund stock prices till now. A good crush of a coin market is what is required to find out a current price for Russian coins. It may appear that after a few years no one will pay as much money for coins anymore.

I haven't bought any Russian coins on eBay for at least a month or two; there just isn't anything out there that I want or need. I think the "one-way" market from the West to Russia is still in full force. And it's really the only explanation I can find for this (aside from Western speculators, of course).

 

There are some reputable eBay sellers with very nice Russian coins out there. I'm sure you all know who they are, and some of them are also members of this forum. But 99% of all the rest of them are bottom-feeders IMHO. Except for an occasional overstruck pyatak of Catherine II, I haven't bought any Russian coins since the last WWC sale. And I probably won't do much buying of Russian coins until the next big (non-eBay) auction.

 

I have bought a few USA coins on eBay, though...still seems possible to cherry-pick some nice U.S. American coins once in a while on the European eBay sites. :ninja:

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I’ve been collecting slowly for about 10 years now using only eBay (and it shows :ninja: ). But I use to be cherry picking, bargain hunting, and buying just a couple dozen coins a year - sticking to scarcer coins. But now I find myself being much more active, and far less wise, for the fear that a year from now, the prices will reach a point where I will not be willing to participate. I’m still happy with the few things (of interest to me) that I sometimes find on eBay.

 

Everything on my Omnicoin page before the 1823 10 Groszy, was bought within the last year: http://www.omnicoin.com/user_view.aspx?id=alexbq2

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Just a note of non interest. Put some UGLY COPPER on ebay. A 1727 MD 5 kopek for $49.99. Someone in Russia bid it up to $417 paid for it and left positive feedback. I was suspicious at first but the sale went off with no problems.

 

Do you have the link to this auction?

 

thanks!

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I’ve been collecting slowly for about 10 years now using only eBay (and it shows ;) ). But I use to be cherry picking, bargain hunting, and buying just a couple dozen coins a year - sticking to scarcer coins. But now I find myself being much more active, and far less wise, for the fear that a year from now, the prices will reach a point where I will not be willing to participate. I’m still happy with the few things (of interest to me) that I sometimes find on eBay.

 

Everything on my Omnicoin page before the 1823 10 Groszy, was bought within the last year: http://www.omnicoin.com/user_view.aspx?id=alexbq2

Very nice coins, alexbq2! :ninja:

Although I've seen a lot of wire money offered on eBay, I'm not sure I remember ever seeing the kind of tokens offered which you collect ... did you find those on eBay, too?

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http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=190237782273

 

Note that the inscription is spelled KOPEAK not KOPEEK which is the way MD spelled it. My guess that this is a fake coin made for circulation on some foreign private mint.

Is it possible that variations in spelling (with "I", "A" and "E" used) could have existed at MD, just as at KD? :ninja:

 

(I was once told that the difference between the Russian language of that time and modern Russian is like the difference between Elizabethan and modern English. To me, as a natively English-speaking person, Elizabethan English seems almost like another language, one which uses unfamiliar words and expressions and which is complicated by the fact that almost any spelling seems to have been acceptable.)

 

If, as you suggest, the coin is a contemporary counterfeit (certainly counterfeiting would have been profitable enough with face value at roughly 4 times intrinsic value), then why would the fake necessarily have to have come from a foreign mint? Couldn't such counterfeiting have taken place inside Russia? ;)

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If, as you suggest, the coin is a contemporary counterfeit (certainly counterfeiting would have been profitable enough with face value at roughly 4 times intrinsic value), then why would the fake necessarily have to have come from a foreign mint? Couldn't such counterfeiting have taken place inside Russia? :ninja:

 

There was an article by V.V. Uzdenikov that claimed that the fake 5 kop "krestoviks" originated in Sweden. That started that whole theory. Then, Mr. Hramenkov published an article questioning that idea, and Uzdenikov withdrew his article from all further publications with an explanation note stating, if I remember correctly, that he could have been wrong.

 

The idea is that the size and weight of the coin demanded heavy equipment, which was readily available on foreign mints and was hard to come by and hard to hide in Russia. Also the quantity of fakes made, which was huge according to the documents published by various researchers, hints that these fakes were mass produced at some well organized commercial mint. I am not sure which way I am leaning in this argument, but if I ever get interested in fakes (albeit, contemporary) I will do more reading on the subject.

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I’ve only read the Uzdenikov article on this subject. But he quotes a few Ukaz that specifically target certain spellings as fakes. I believe KOPEIK was never an officially accepted spelling. Also, there’s evidence that KD mint has only produced coins with the spelling KOPEAK – so all other variants are considered to be fakes. On the other hand I haven’t found any mentions in catalogs of a 1727 MD coin with KOPEAK spelling (maybe I just missed it). But it is an accepted theory that a lot of light weight coins were being forged because their face value was 4 times greater than the amount of copper they contain. This extends to polushkas as well.

 

Squirrel that eBay coin is from KD mint which only used KOPEAK spelling. This one is a fake:

947572.jpg

 

http://http://www.omnicoin.com/coins/947572.jpg

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Very nice coins, alexbq2! :ninja:

Although I've seen a lot of wire money offered on eBay, I'm not sure I remember ever seeing the kind of tokens offered which you collect ... did you find those on eBay, too?

 

Thanks BobH,

 

Most of the stuff is from eBay, with a few exceptions (but those are related to eBay sellers anyway)

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I’ve only read the Uzdenikov article on this subject. But he quotes a few Ukaz that specifically target certain spellings as fakes. I believe KOPEIK was never an officially accepted spelling. Also, there’s evidence that KD mint has only produced coins with the spelling KOPEAK – so all other variants are considered to be fakes. On the other hand I haven’t found any mentions in catalogs of a 1727 MD coin with KOPEAK spelling (maybe I just missed it). But it is an accepted theory that a lot of light weight coins were being forged because their face value was 4 times greater than the amount of copper they contain. This extends to polushkas as well.

 

Squirrel that eBay coin is from KD mint which only used KOPEAK spelling. This one is a fake:

947572.jpg

 

http://http://www.omnicoin.com/coins/947572.jpg

 

1727 KD -- all exist: "E" & "A" & "I" ("I" -- Bit. 314 - 316)

 

1727 ND -- should be "E"

 

1727 MD -- should be "E"

 

All this is (IMXO) because these coins are definitely not my forte. I think I have a 1730 DM some place ;) and would like to get a 1730 MM somehow :ninja: , but that the limit of my interest. I personally think that the business run copper of the period was too ugly to collect. I wish they went with some of those patterns. Even in great condition, which is very hard, I feel nothing toward those coins.

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1727 KD -- all exist: "E" & "A" & "I" ("I" -- Bit. 314 - 316)

 

They exist but Uzdenikov says they are fake. In fact he states that coins with the inscription KOPEIK were officially declared to be forgeries. After this Ukaz the new fake coins appeared with a widened I that was manually cut into an E. IMHO, such as on my coin.

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They exist but Uzdenikov says they are fake. In fact he states that coins with the inscription KOPEIK were officially declared to be forgeries. After this Ukaz the new fake coins appeared with a widened I that was manually cut into an E. IMHO, such as on my coin.

 

I am not sure if your coin has the re-cut E. I can not see it too well in your picture, but the spacing suggests too much room there. The re-cut E should be very skinny.

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Many thanks, especially to BKB and alexbq2, for the information provided concerning the various spellings on these coins. I don't recall seeing this information before, but perhaps my memory is not what it once was.

 

The suggestion that the forgeries might have been made in Sweden is an interesting one and seems plausible, especially given the hostilities between Russia and Sweden in the Great Northern War. Certainly Sweden did counterfeit Catherine II piataks at Avesta and could have done so with those of the 1720s as well (whether simply for profit or as a form of economic warfare).

 

Governments imitating coins of other countries is not unknown - other examples like Russian & Polish imitations of Dutch ducats, British imitations of French gold (like Wellington's Napoleons), Napoleonic forgeries of Russian assignats in 1812, British forgeries of American Revolutionary notes and German counterfeiting of British paper money in WWII all come readily to mind. No doubt there are other examples as well.

 

I have not seen the reply to Uzdenikov's article mentioned, so do not know what points were made against his theory. Certainly it sounds like it is possible.

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