Vfox Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 I finally got snagged on ebay. I purchase a 1790 Charles IIII bust of Charles III 8 reale and got it in the mail today. It's a cast counterfeit, a very good one except for two casting "digs" (which were not mentioned or overly obvious as digs in the photos) and the rim has a join mark and doesn't always line up on both sides of the edge design. It is also 23.35g which is a full 3.5g underweight. I emailed the seller and he appears to have plenty of real coins so I am going to assume until I hear his response that he was unaware this was a counterfeit. I am pretty miffed about this because of the type of coin it is a counterfeit of; it is a difficult type to locate and is rarely available on eBay, so of course I was really happy when I won the auction...feh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccg Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 Sorry to hear about that- hopefully it was an oversight by the seller. Do you think that this is modern, or contemporary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vfox Posted August 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 I would assume modern because the coin is very clean. It is possible they used a jewelers method which would only require two sprue areas and would be very clean. That method would require a centrifuge caster and investment that is very fine grained at the least, so it is within the last 35 years most likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sturzny Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 Any seller that can't bother with the simple expedient of weighing a coin, especially with a heavily counterfeited series like this, has no business peddling coins on eBay. You should get a full refund of what you paid plus reimbursement of any additional cost you incur to send the coin back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vfox Posted August 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 He emailed me and offered a 100% refund. He said it was his fathers collection and his father claimed this coin was mended at some point. Obviously the "mending" marks are casting marks, but it's a mistake I am willing to believe if he didn't know much about coins. Granted his father should have noticed the edge, but meh, as long as I get my money back and I don't see them selling it again I don't care much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedeadpoint Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 well, at least you came across an understanding seller. A few Qs: whats a dig? a sprue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vfox Posted August 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 well, at least you came across an understanding seller. A few Qs: whats a dig? a sprue? A dig, at least in the way I was using it is a gouge in the coin, some sort of dug hole or depression. You see these digs covered up with new metal being soldered or fused to a coin to hide them on occasion. But in this case it was still a depression in the coin. A sprue is a channel in which molten metal flows to the area being cast. In otherwords when this coin was made, those two "digs" or depressions on the reverse is where the metal actually flowed from. Here is how it is done with jewelry. Take a wax duplicate of whatever it is you want in metal. Put 1-2 wax posts (so the metal has a way into the mold) onto the wax model Invest (encase) the wax model in a special ceramic plaster leaving the sprue exposed Burn wax out in kiln and set the ceramic plaster Pour/force molten metal into the empty (it was burned out) sprue holes Quench in water Break out of mold Cut off sprues and clean up I am absolutely certain this was made in a similar way, it has all the markings that my jewelry has after I cast it in silver. I left out a few small steps that are somewhat vital in case anyone gets the bright idea to actually attempt this. In otherwords, don't, it's highly illegal, dangerous, and just plain assanine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just carl Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 Sorry I'm just a pessimist but when it comes to people on ebay I just really think that about 99.99% are crooks. Well maybe not that much but 98.75% at least. I'm pretty sure most such sellers are using similar stories about not sure if real, got it from a relative, dug it up in a pyramid, etc. I noticed you didn't say how much. At least you are getting your money back or I hope so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NumisMattic2200 Posted August 5, 2008 Report Share Posted August 5, 2008 Sorry to hear of your recent bad experience on 'the Bay' - hope he lets you return it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vfox Posted August 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2008 I noticed you didn't say how much. At least you are getting your money back or I hope so. It was $73, not a rediculous amount, but more than I should have risked I suppose. The guy had a few hundred feedbacks, and 100% positive, I didn't feel too nervous, as long as I get my money back there is no issue...well as long as I don't see it on ebay again anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just carl Posted August 5, 2008 Report Share Posted August 5, 2008 It was $73, not a rediculous amount, but more than I should have risked I suppose. The guy had a few hundred feedbacks, and 100% positive, I didn't feel too nervous, as long as I get my money back there is no issue...well as long as I don't see it on ebay again anyway. Hope you get all the money back. Did you have to pay postage and handling and insurance though? Who paid for the return postage and stuff. Some of those ebay people also claim they need a restocking fee. You have to be carefull with ebay. My son uses it all the time to sell. He has had neighbors, friends and relatives send in positive feedbacks so his record looks fantastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amac44 Posted August 5, 2008 Report Share Posted August 5, 2008 I finally got snagged on ebay. I purchase a 1790 Charles IIII bust of Charles III 8 reale and got it in the mail today. It's a cast counterfeit, a very good one except for two casting "digs" (which were not mentioned or overly obvious as digs in the photos) and the rim has a join mark and doesn't always line up on both sides of the edge design. It is also 23.35g which is a full 3.5g underweight. I emailed the seller and he appears to have plenty of real coins so I am going to assume until I hear his response that he was unaware this was a counterfeit. I am pretty miffed about this because of the type of coin it is a counterfeit of; it is a difficult type to locate and is rarely available on eBay, so of course I was really happy when I won the auction...feh. If you used pay pal do a charge back pay pal will get you money back & maybe shipping too. I know I have been a buyer & seller on the bay and I have had to do it to a seller also but getting ripped off is hard to take and$73.00 is a lot of money to me I am on a fixed income $5.00 dollar is to much to get ripped off for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NumisMattic2200 Posted August 5, 2008 Report Share Posted August 5, 2008 Chargebacks!!! one of my buyers got a chargeback done on me for an item he claimed he hadn't received after about two or three weeks. Amazing - evilBay just allowed this to happen!..... Now after the coin arrived, the buyer will not have had the honesty to admit to his atrocious attitude... I'd go for it, because eBay stinks for the buyers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoRnholio Posted August 5, 2008 Report Share Posted August 5, 2008 If you used pay pal do a charge back pay pal will get you money back & maybe shipping too. I know I have been a buyer & seller on the bay and I have had to do it to a seller also but getting ripped off is hard to take and$73.00 is a lot of money to me I am on a fixed income $5.00 dollar is to much to get ripped off for. Yes if you used Paypal, I wouldn't have any worries at all about being able to get a full refund. But if the seller is communicative and willing to give a full refund, there is no need to jump on the chargeback train so soon. Give the seller some time to make good first. As long as you open a claim with Paypal within 60 days of the purchase, you are in good hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vfox Posted August 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2008 Yes if you used Paypal, I wouldn't have any worries at all about being able to get a full refund. But if the seller is communicative and willing to give a full refund, there is no need to jump on the chargeback train so soon. Give the seller some time to make good first. As long as you open a claim with Paypal within 60 days of the purchase, you are in good hands. I did use Paypal but like you said, I am letting the seller make good on his mistake. If he doesn't once the coin arrives (sent with confirmation) then I will have to file for one. I do think this person will be legitimate with me, but you never know...afterall I was sold a fake coin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiho Posted August 6, 2008 Report Share Posted August 6, 2008 I did use Paypal but like you said, I am letting the seller make good on his mistake. If he doesn't once the coin arrives (sent with confirmation) then I will have to file for one. I do think this person will be legitimate with me, but you never know...afterall I was sold a fake coin. Over the years I have gotten only two fake coins on eBay and both sellers gave me a full refund. Both were surprised to hear that the coins were counterfeit, in fact one had come from a major Dutch auction house. The only time I was ever burned on eBay was once I bought a coin that turned out to be cleaned and the seller would NOT grant a refund. So I never bought from him again, which cost him thousands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vfox Posted August 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2008 He made good on his promise, I had a 100% refund which included my shipping in my Paypal this morning. This does make me feel a bit more confident that he really didn't know it was counterfeit, dno, anyway I am happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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