bobh Posted July 2, 2008 Report Share Posted July 2, 2008 Very nice coin, sold for $3,550: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=300235697255 Congratulations, David and Valeriya! Does anyone know of a higher price realized for this year and type (not proof)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gxseries Posted July 2, 2008 Report Share Posted July 2, 2008 Oh what a bugger - I could have got a UNC 1915 ruble at 600 Australian dollars and I couldn't afford it back then (and still can't) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted July 2, 2008 Report Share Posted July 2, 2008 Congratulations, David and Valeriya! Agreed. Congratulations on your good fortune! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted July 2, 2008 Report Share Posted July 2, 2008 Oh what a bugger - I could have got a UNC 1915 ruble at 600 Australian dollars and I couldn't afford it back then (and still can't) How long ago was that, gx? Was the coin of similar quality? (This one looks unusually nice, although bobh is a better judge of that than I.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gxseries Posted July 2, 2008 Report Share Posted July 2, 2008 About three years ago Grivna so it's quite recent. It's definately UNC. I don't remember off my head about any major scratch but it was a superb specimen as far as I can remember. I was lucky enough to handle it in it's holder let alone even attempting to make any purchases. Another dealer in the past had offered a wide range of Georgian coins under the Russian occupation - probably had 10 different years. He even had a couple of Peter I ruble so that was quite astonishing. Quite a large collection. Now I don't even make any trips to the coin fair simply because I know if I attend it, I'll end up feeling much worse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbq2 Posted July 2, 2008 Report Share Posted July 2, 2008 About three years ago Grivna so it's quite recent. It's definately UNC. I don't remember off my head about any major scratch but it was a superb specimen as far as I can remember. I was lucky enough to handle it in it's holder let alone even attempting to make any purchases. Another dealer in the past had offered a wide range of Georgian coins under the Russian occupation - probably had 10 different years. He even had a couple of Peter I ruble so that was quite astonishing. Quite a large collection. Now I don't even make any trips to the coin fair simply because I know if I attend it, I'll end up feeling much worse I think prices quadruple or even quintupled over the last 3-4 years, so $600 is almost consistent with what Rarenum’s coin realized. BTW, as far as I understand Georgia was never occupied by Russia (unlike other places), the alliance and then integration of Georgia into Russian Empire was consensual, with Georgian aristocracy keeping all their titles and privileges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gxseries Posted July 2, 2008 Report Share Posted July 2, 2008 Pardon me Alex, my understanding of Russian history is totally limited - I'm not European at all Thanks for correcting it for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHV Posted July 3, 2008 Report Share Posted July 3, 2008 Very nice coin, sold for $3,550: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=300235697255 Congratulations, David and Valeriya! Does anyone know of a higher price realized for this year and type (not proof)? Hi I do not think any unusual in the price for 1915 ruble ms64... As we can see last Long Beach Heritage action realized three similar coins for: MS62 - $2300 MS62 - $3220 MS63 - $3450 So for MS64 I expected even 4k Thanks, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgorS Posted July 3, 2008 Report Share Posted July 3, 2008 Hi I do not think any unusual in the price for 1915 ruble ms64... As we can see last Long Beach Heritage action realized three similar coins for: MS62 - $2300 MS62 - $3220 MS63 - $3450 So for MS64 I expected even 4k Thanks, I agree. 1915 in very high grade is quite rare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted July 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2008 Hi I do not think any unusual in the price for 1915 ruble ms64... As we can see last Long Beach Heritage action realized three similar coins for: MS62 - $2300 MS62 - $3220 MS63 - $3450 So for MS64 I expected even 4k Thanks, Thanks, GHV! Now the question remains as to whether the coin is truly MS-64, or perhaps an overgraded MS-63? Don't get me wrong, I think it is a beautiful coin ... but maybe the bidders only wanted to pay MS-63 money? As we know today, 1915 roubles were probably struck in quantity after the revolution and aren't nearly as rare as the mintage figures would suggest. I think we might see many more examples of this date in high grades if they hadn't been cleaned at some time in the past. But this one is indeed one of the nicest examples I have seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariba Posted July 3, 2008 Report Share Posted July 3, 2008 I recently noticed that Konros catalogue lists 2 varieties of 1915 rouble (hard to understand what they mean, but looks like one is the same as 1914 and the other is with a higher relief). Has anybody seen these 2 varities side by side? From the Internet pictures of 1915 (maybe 10 total) I have compared I can't see any difference. Also, Bitkin and Kazakov list just 1 variety. Just curious about the source of Konros info and whether it's true. If it is true, then could that be the difference between coins struck in 1915 and the ones re-struck later??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHV Posted July 3, 2008 Report Share Posted July 3, 2008 Thanks, GHV! Now the question remains as to whether the coin is truly MS-64, or perhaps an overgraded MS-63? Don't get me wrong, I think it is a beautiful coin ... but maybe the bidders only wanted to pay MS-63 money? As we know today, 1915 roubles were probably struck in quantity after the revolution and aren't nearly as rare as the mintage figures would suggest. I think we might see many more examples of this date in high grades if they hadn't been cleaned at some time in the past. But this one is indeed one of the nicest examples I have seen. That is correct, 1915 date is not that rare, probably was minted in Soviet period. If you ask me how much I could pay for this MS64 piece - my answer will be - No more than 2k even if its MS64.... BUT if your collection missing this date its okey to pay such amount of money, but for investment this date is sucks. IMHO (same about 1911 gold 10 rubles) about the grade MS63 or MS64,,, we are talking about MS64 (I believe it is) And I'm sure the buyer posted highest bid about 4k (if no more). We can compair this date with 1912, which is very common even in high grade.... but some people can pay crazy prices for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgorS Posted July 4, 2008 Report Share Posted July 4, 2008 .... If you ask me how much I could pay for this MS64 piece - my answer will be - No more than 2k even if its MS64.... .... As one famous coin deler told me many years ago - "if it's worth 2k - it's worth 3k, and so on" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHV Posted July 4, 2008 Report Share Posted July 4, 2008 As one famous coin deler told me many years ago - "if it's worth 2k - it's worth 3k, and so on" Agree But still it's questionable date to pay 2-3-4-5k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted July 4, 2008 Report Share Posted July 4, 2008 BTW, as far as I understand Georgia was never occupied by Russia (unlike other places), the alliance and then integration of Georgia into Russian Empire was consensual, with Georgian aristocracy keeping all their titles and privileges. It sounds like Georgia was semi-autonomous within the Empire, something like the Grand Duchy of Finland, or the pre-1831 Congress Kingdom of Poland - not really independent, but not tightly controlled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbq2 Posted July 4, 2008 Report Share Posted July 4, 2008 It sounds like Georgia was semi-autonomous within the Empire, something like the Grand Duchy of Finland, or the pre-1831 Congress Kingdom of Poland - not really independent, but not tightly controlled. Well, actually not independent at all Georgia was threatened by Persia, and their king had asked Catherine the Great for protection. Georgia at this point became a Russian protectorat, but retained it's ruling dynasty. They made coins like this one to show the link with Russia: Then Alexander I had changed the conditions of this agreement, and annexed Georgia. At this point the Georgian king did protest, but he did not have much say in this matter. Keeping all that in mind, Georgia was not really invaded and annexed by force, although those who actively protested were temporarily arrested. Then Alexander I made coins like this: Somewhat similar situation occurred earlier with Crimea. First Russia helped Crimean Khanate to gain independence from the Ottoman empire, then pretty much just told the Khan that they are now a part of Russia. The Khan was given a pension and was settled somewhere in the Russian province (which he did not much care for). He eventually went either to Persia or Turkey, where he was poisoned. But on the upside Russians celebrated the annexation of Crimea by making those TM coins, on the down side I don't have any of those. BTW, all this info is mostly from articles on wikipedia which I've read in between sniping coins on eBay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RARENUM Posted July 4, 2008 Report Share Posted July 4, 2008 Thank you Bobh and Grivna1726 It is great feeling received price record on eBay, and I have more funds to spend for other coins. I’m sorry, I have missed discussion on the beginning .Then I listed coin my wife ask me how mach coin can be worth, my answer was possible about 2k for today market. I was wrong and I’m happy . I agree with GHV ruble of 1915 is not that rare, probably additional coins were minted in Soviet period. For today market a lot collectors and investors paying more for quality even coming dates.1915 ruble not coming in MS64.A lot of coins sold today looks like strong price, tomorrow will be cheap and no body can answer then the price rising will stop. I have not find any Russian coins with bad dates even then I have purchasing for 3-10 bucks copper coins of 19th century in AU-UNC on the show in 1990’s ,turn out to be better investment then other coins. Some Coins selling up to 100 times more just after ten years.Looks like if you paying strong prices for coins it always paid back. Rarenum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted July 4, 2008 Report Share Posted July 4, 2008 Well, actually not independent at all Georgia was threatened by Persia, and their king had asked Catherine the Great for protection. Georgia at this point became a Russian protectorat, but retained it's ruling dynasty. They made coins like this one to show the link with Russia: Then Alexander I had changed the conditions of this agreement, and annexed Georgia. At this point the Georgian king did protest, but he did not have much say in this matter. Keeping all that in mind, Georgia was not really invaded and annexed by force, although those who actively protested were temporarily arrested. Then Alexander I made coins like this: Somewhat similar situation occurred earlier with Crimea. First Russia helped Crimean Khanate to gain independence from the Ottoman empire, then pretty much just told the Khan that they are now a part of Russia. The Khan was given a pension and was settled somewhere in the Russian province (which he did not much care for). He eventually went either to Persia or Turkey, where he was poisoned. But on the upside Russians celebrated the annexation of Crimea by making those TM coins, on the down side I don't have any of those. BTW, all this info is mostly from articles on wikipedia which I've read in between sniping coins on eBay Thank you for your reply. Coins from places like Georgia and Armenia are difficult for me. The alphabets are completely unfamiliar and seem to have little, if any, similarity to the Latin or Cyrillic alphabets. Without understanding such basics, reading the inscriptions is exceedingly difficult and coin identification becomes a matter of trying to match the coin against pictures in books. The first Georgian copper you show has an easily identifiable eagle, but the rest is a mystery to me. Maybe it is somewhat easier for those who are fluent in Russian. My guess is the Georgian language is closer to the Persian or Indian languages than it is to Russian, but this is just a guess based on the similarity in style (they all look like squiggles to me ) of the script used. On the other hand, Stalin was Georgian and seems to have had little difficulty in making himself understood, so maybe the languages are more alike than I imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbq2 Posted July 4, 2008 Report Share Posted July 4, 2008 There was an excellent coin museum page on the National Bank of Georgia's website. It had tons the images of Gergian coins from all periods, and articles about the monetary systems of those periods. I can't find it now. I think they had taken it down From what I can remember you are correct about the first coin - the inscription is mostly in Persian. The second coin's inscription is in Georgian. Most Russian catalogs will have a date/value conversion tables (this one is an 1808 Bisti). The inscription under the crown reads Tiflis (now Tbilisi), I don't remember what the other side says. As a personal side note I can only add that I've always found the Russian regional coinages fascinating. Just think of all the regional issues during the reign of Catherine II, amazing if you consider the historical implications! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gxseries Posted July 4, 2008 Report Share Posted July 4, 2008 You mean this Alex: http://www.nbg.gov.ge/index.php?m=405&lng=eng Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbq2 Posted July 4, 2008 Report Share Posted July 4, 2008 You mean this Alex: http://www.nbg.gov.ge/index.php?m=405&lng=eng No, they actually had an online museum with probably over a hundred good quality coin pictures. It was on nbg.gov.ge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted July 4, 2008 Report Share Posted July 4, 2008 No, they actually had an online museum with probably over a hundred good quality coin pictures. It was on nbg.gov.ge Too bad. Sounds like it was a page worth saving as an archive on one's own computer. Hopefully, someone did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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