Olga Posted June 23, 2008 Report Share Posted June 23, 2008 Dear all, my parents live in the Czech Republic, central Europe, near the Austrian border. I do not understand numismatics at all and need the help of experts because my dad found a coin in our backyard while digging. This coin shows most probably Louis the XIV, French king. Date on the coin is 1693. It looks like the coin was overstruck as some of the symbols overlap. I have attached pictures as well so if anyone knows something more particular, please advise. I will be grateful. I wonder also what might have happened those many years ago. I am not aware of Louis XIV passing through Moravia. As you can see there is a hook attached to the coin, someone must have worn it as a pendant. I am just visiting (from Australia) my parents here in the Czech republic and my dad was very excited to give me the coin as a present. My mum however said that she had a very bad feeling when they found the coin, she felt very scared, like someone killed the person carrying the coin and the coin having a very negative story behind it. A little superstitious. Aparently the coin was struck in the city of Pau in Southern France, nearby the Spanish border. I am really not concerned about the value of the coin at all even though this is pretty much my inheritance! Our family never had any money and it looks like it will stay that way... I am just really interested in the history especially since living in Australia where history is almost non-existent. I have to post the pictures a bit later, have some problems uploading the file. Kind regards, Olga Dolezalova Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gxseries Posted June 23, 2008 Report Share Posted June 23, 2008 Hi Olga, Welcome to coinpeople and I hope you'll enjoy your stay here. Btw, you can register a free service on http://www.imageshack.us and you can upload pictures up to 1.5mb each. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank Posted June 24, 2008 Report Share Posted June 24, 2008 Does the coin look anything like this one? This is a 1694 1/4 écu aux palmes of Louis XIV. It weighs 6.746 grams and is between 27 and 30 mm wide. If your piece is indeed from Pau (which would be a "cow" mintmark), and you think it was overstruck, then it could be one of the following, assuming it's a silver coin: 1693 1/12 écu aux palmes de France-Navarre-Béarn, quite small, 2.261 g and between 19 and 21 mm wide 1693 1/2 écu aux palmes de France-Navarre-Béarn, 13.544 grams and 32 to 35 mm wide 1693 écu aux palmes etc., 27.142 grams and 39 to 41 mm wide, quite a big coin These last two I mention are quite rare, so I doubt it's one of them. Or it could be a small coin, quite different from the design above, a sol de 15 deniers de France-Navarre-Béarn, only 1.85 g and betwee 21 and 23 mm wide. ...and a few other possibilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiho Posted June 24, 2008 Report Share Posted June 24, 2008 I hope she posts a photo of the coin. Excellent research there Frank, imagine if it is one of the two rare ones... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank Posted June 24, 2008 Report Share Posted June 24, 2008 If it's not a Pau (cow) mintmark, but just a P mintmark (for Dijon) (I don't know why P was used for Dijon!), then there are more possibilities, some more common than others ... 1693 P 4 sols aux deux "L", a small coin (19 mm wide) with a very different design than the Pau coins 1693 P sol de 15 deniers with or without a fleur-de-lis countermark (22-25 mm wide), again very different design... (these are common coins) etc etc etc. I must admit, my curiosity is piqued! hope the photo will eventually show up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebob Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 Anything like this..! Its from 1693 1/4 Ecu 8L 9 Can anyone confirm the number of coins minted for this year? The number 9 indicates its from Rennes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank Posted January 27, 2013 Report Share Posted January 27, 2013 Gadoury shows no 1693 1/4 écu aux 8 L minted in Rennes (mintmark 9). That year the 1/4 écu aux 8 L was minted in Lyons, La Rochelle, Montpellier, Riom, Dijon, Bourges and Troyes thru September, when the new 1/4 écu aux palmes started (and ran thru 1700). There is a 1/4 écu aux palmes with the Rennes (9) mintmark but there is no mintage noted, and it seems rare; Gadoury gives the notation "signalé mais non confirmé" (referred to but not confirmed), meaning the coins may not have been actually minted at Rennes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebob Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 Hi Frank, I had a look at a copy of the Gadoury. I found the coin listed as below. - 1693 1/4 écu aux 8 L (9) rf. 36,000 examples. And no other mention or note of 1693 1/4 écu aux 8 L (9) ------ examples. I think were looking at different books, mine was from the library so i dont have it to hand to confirm. Is this something suitable to send to PCGS in Paris? many thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebob Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 Here is the only over coin I can find similar to mine. http://www.ma-shops.com/saive/item.php5?id=9614&lang=fr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebob Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 Hi the website below confirms what you say Frank! Any ideas where to find more information. Value?? http://www.albertis....ogue/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 Here is the only over coin I can find similar to mine. http://www.ma-shops....id=9614&lang=fr The last digit of the date is deformed from having been struck over an earlier coin. I don't think it's 1693. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebob Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 So mines better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 I haven't yet seen a picture of the obverse of your coin, davebob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebob Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 Theres a picture in this post: French coin 1693 1/4 Ecu HELP PLEASE in Europe Started by davebob, 18 Jan 2013 1/4 Ecu 8L 1693 9 Rennes I cant upload more for some reason... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 Q: Are you sure your coin is a 1/4 écu, davebob? Does it weigh 6.746 grams and is it 27-28 mm wide? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebob Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 A. Yes, its 28mm and weighs 6.6g! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 Send it to PCGS. If it's really a 1693 1/4 écu aux 8 L with a Rennes mintmark, you'll want professional verification. It'll be worth the cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebob Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 Thanks for your advice and help. When I receive the coin back from PCGS I will post the information here. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albertmorison Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 i agree with frank that firstly send your coin to PCGS. Because after grading its vaule is increased and valid in all over world wityh its quality specification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebob Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 OK so I have arranged an appointment with PCGS. I was trying to wait before becoming a member so I had a chance to accumulate more higher quality coins. It seems difficult to distinguish the grades at the higher end. Over the last six months I have had thousands of the same coin variety through my hands. Its been a long process and a steep learning curve. But I'm left with 40 ish coins I'm certain or I hope will score MS 60 or higher. And I'm a bit worried about coins grading lower than I expect. But I suppose that's part of learning. I have recently acquired a 150W strip light its amazing how much more you can see. I have read you need a consistent light source but not understood the importance. I'd imagine the trick is to only submit coins that even if they grade F they still carry a premium. As I said before I will add to this post the outcome for the coin in question. And my overall review and feedback for the service PCGS provides. Baring in mind ofcourse I'm a beginner. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebob Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 oh noooo just noticed this comparisson coin is a Demi-Ecu aux 8 L, 1er type (9) its infact is a 1/2 Ecu and not 1/4 Ecu. So that means that there is currently no other examples on the internet that i can find myself of the 1/4. Below is information from this website; http://www.albertis.fr/catalogue/index.html its shows no listing of the 1693 1/2 Ecu either. I 1/2 ECU aux 8 L Argent Poids officiel: 13,725 g 32 à 35 mm Gadoury:184 Valeur indicative en euros 1692 9 ? fr 50 100 280 1693 A 5.609 fn non coté 1693 A ? fr 50 100 280 1693 B ? fr 67 133 370 1693 D 52.447 fr non coté 1693 H ? fr 54 108 300 1693 I 2.448 fn non coté 1693 I ? fr 54 108 300 1693 L couronné 14.570 fn non coté 1693 M ? fr 58 117 330 1693 N 17.983 fr non coté 1693 O 4.743 fn non coté 1693 O 410 fr non coté 1693 P 28.837 fn non coté 1693 S couronné ? fr 58 117 330 1693 X ? fr 54 108 300 1693 Y 31.823 fr non coté fn=flan neuf - fr=flan réformé Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebob Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 For the three years this series was minted, from 1690 to 1693 49 varietys exist all of which are marked as - fr = flan réformé (reformed) there is just two years where its marked as (fn=flan neuf) (new) and only one marked fn which has recorded mintage; 1692 (9) Rennes - fn ( ? examples) 1692 (9) Rennes - fr ( ? examples) 1693 (0) Riom - fn (1,754 examples) 1693 (0) Riom - fr (11,380 examples) Considering my example shows no restrike evidence Is there a connection?? the fact one year before in 1692 they were minting coins in this design in Rennes on new planchets. Is it a mistake. Did someone just start minting 1693 coins with (9) Mintmark. Can i also conclude it most likely come from Rennes or Riom. As it appears these are the only two mints using new planchets for this series. You can see the mintage here for the 1693 (0) Riom - fn (1,754 examples) if my example isnt even mentioned is there a chance its unique?? 1/2 ECU aux 8 L Argent Poids officiel: 13,725 g 32 à 35 mm Gadoury:184 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebob Posted February 8, 2013 Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 Another interesting fact for the whole series of 1/4 Ecu aux 8 L 1690 - 1693 with all the different ateliers there was only two varieties of which coins were struck on new planchets. One of them being the 1/4 Ecu aux 8 L 1692 9 rennes. Somehow do you think there is a chance someone made an error? Another interesting aspect my coin has a different crown then any other example i have seen. I have edited a picture so you can see clearly. The only other ecu coins i have seen with the same crown design is Louis D or gold coins.. many thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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