Jump to content
CoinPeople.com

My 5kop1766CM to be screened by gxseries


Recommended Posts

Hi gxseries, thank you for accepting to screen mine, too. What do you mean with "photograph as FLAT as possible"? I did a 900dpi scan - would that be OK? Click on the rim of my picture to enlarge, click on the enlarged picture to further enlarge. I can do the others (1763,1764,1765) only tomorrow. Pleaase let me know. I am very interested in your results!

:ninja: Thanks again, regards, Sigi

 

5kop1766cmfscreeningxo4.jpg

By sigistenz

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I want to see it, but I don't.

Not clear visible , but you can find:

1. It looks like "1" on 12 o'clock' .On the left side from the cross on the crown.

2. The line on the monogram "E" breaks matching to design of 1762 10 kopecks...

Rarenum.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guys, you must remember that anything that seems abnormal where it is supposed to be flat in the fields is a strong indication of something was there in the first place. If it isn't flat and something is there, there REALLY is something there!

 

I am very reluctant to be over prescriptive of how to find the underlaying coin but for starters, I believe color contrast, negative do help. If that does not help, it may be recommended that you do a print out (I'm serious) to a A4 or letter size and print the 1762 10 kopek (make sure they are same size) on a transparency. Try and match and if it doesn't, go and do some tracing and it might give you another perspective. It does help and that is how I started in the beginning. Honestly though, my photography skills are much worse than anyone here so I'm sure it's a lot clearer by hand :ninja:

 

I'll wait for Sigi's feedback on what he thinks. I'm sure the year 1762 is VERY clear if it's viewed under a hand lens. Btw Rarenum, what do you think about your 5 kopek coins - reckon the underlaying image is where I believe it is at? I can give suggestions of where the major elements are if it's still unclear.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not clear visible , but you can find:

1. It looks like "1" on 12 o'clock' .On the left side from the cross on the crown.

2. The line on the monogram "E" breaks matching to design of 1762 10 kopecks...

Rarenum.

It might be there, but it is not clear to me. I feel like I'm doing one of those inkblot tests and I wonder if what I "see" in it is really there, or just there because that's how my mind interprets data which is actually random and patternless.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello gxseries and thank you very much. I combined my picture with yours into one picture. It can be enlarged by clicking on the upper rim and again when clicking on the enlarged picture. The "10" of the undercoin (once knowing where to look and only then) can only be believed with very much good will, even with the coin in hand under a strong glass. Of the other features I can't detect anything. There are some die variants of the 10kop1762 and its other features may be slightly displaced from what is shown on your picture of one of the 7 variants. Your reasearch work is very interesting and I do not doubt that you are right. I remember that Uzdennikov stated somewhere that all the CM 5kop are overstrikes. Your research makes it believe easier. Obviously the CM overstrikes were very powerful. This coin in hand does not reveal any overstrike features, in terms of what we call overstrikes. Not even under a stong glass. Should I ever offer it for sale, nobody could be convinced of the overstrike. Thank you again, I am very impressed by your skills. If you would not mind I'd present the other suspects one of the following days. Best regards, Sigi 5kop1766cmplusgxserieswg6.jpgBy sigistenz

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The thing that makes it difficult is that the undercoin variety does not seem to match the variety that I have here. It seems that the number "7" is straight instead of a cursive 7. I only wished I have access to all varieties to have a better understanding. Would anyone happen to have a complete picture catalog of all varieties? Reckon Steve has all of them :ninja:

 

Also Sigi, please feel free to post all pictures that are of interest and I'll take a look at them. It just seems that CM coins are just heavily struck. Well duh, it was an armory apparently

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The thing that makes it difficult is that the undercoin variety does not seem to match the variety that I have here. It seems that the number "7" is straight instead of a cursive 7. I only wished I have access to all varieties to have a better understanding. Would anyone happen to have a complete picture catalog of all varieties? Reckon Steve has all of them ;)

 

Also Sigi, please feel free to post all pictures that are of interest and I'll take a look at them. It just seems that CM coins are just heavily struck. Well duh, it was an armory apparently

 

Guys...OK...some thoughts.

 

First I think it's outstanding that people are excited about this and that gxseries is doing an excellent job leading the charge. It's important in my mind to find an overstrike in the 1764-1767CMs. Good job guys. :ninja:

 

That said, so far I don't see any evidence. Planchets and dies have imperfections, and this especially true in russian copper, and you're going to see them wherever you look. Statistically speaking, if you look hard enough at any coin, you're going to find the "tip of a spear" or the "ear of a horse". In fact you're probably going to find several. I can look at a 1778EM 5K (definitely not overstruck) and find something.

There are also a lot of ways to overlay an undercoin image, rotate it, and shift it. In fact there are an infinite number of ways to do it. No doubt you'll match some set of imperfections to what you're hoping to find. If, however, you can clearly see a date or letter or something on a larger scale then it's a different story. So far I haven't, and I've spent many hours looking at CMs, both my own and images here. There are glimpses and hints but I can't say that they're anything more than hopeful thinking.

 

The argument about the heavy presses at the armory is often used. That doesn't, however, explain why we see with relatively little problem 1763CMs which are clearly overstruck. Not spear tips, but clear overstrikes.

 

I do hope we find something that doesn't require a lot of good will (to quote Sigi) but unfortunately in my mind so far that's what we have. gx, if you really do see a clear underdate somewhere please do your best to do an exact overlay or otherwise indicate exactly where and to what extent you see it.

 

Again I don't want to be negative, but so far the proof has not yet been found.

 

Steve

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's no problem Steve - it's just something that it drives me crazy of not able to explain what I saw and still see.

 

I believe the best way to tackle overstruck coins is to first find all abnormalities which should not be in the original coin design and circle them, even better is to trace the ones that I can trace.

 

http://www.gxseries.com/temp/1766_cm_5k_sigi_highlight.png

 

I hope this time around, the base of the number "1" and the figure "7" is VERY clear. There is double concentric rings which leads to the design of the cannon.

 

1766_cm_5k_sigi_figure7_f.png

 

1766_cm_5k_sigi_base1_f.png

 

1766_cm_5k_sigi_cannon_f.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I reckon it is slightly higher up but as you can see, there is something that does look like the figure "7"

 

1766_cm_5k_sigi_figure7_1_f.png

 

Ok, I see something. Here's a thought, it looks like you sized up the images of the 2 coins to have the same diameter. However, an overstruck coin is a bit bigger than the original. I think if you make your 10 kop. image a bit smaller, you will have a better fit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...