LostDutchman Posted May 13, 2008 Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 hey gang! I am amazed at the good work that you guys are doing trying to keep the fakes off of e bay. I was sitting here reading a thread this morning and I thought that maybe the powers that be around here might create a separate forum, or a sub forum dedicated to the spotting and reporting of fakes... not just Russian ones. (that seems to be where most of the fake coins are tho) I think it would be a service to the community ...but all fakes.... Just a thought.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Shaver Posted May 13, 2008 Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 If it flys .. will add lots of 18th century copper fakes .. pics and all .. even plates .. the Ruble even .. I was thinking of the same for a webthing too. If it is here all the better .. mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottishmoney Posted May 13, 2008 Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 Actually LostDutchman, it is a great idea. For the whole forum, not just the Russian section. Just today on fleaBay I have seen several fakes, and even fake slabs in the USA gold section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted May 13, 2008 Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 There is a nice gallery of Russian fakes at www.Kopek.ws Perhaps this can be added to. I bought a few fake rubles on ebay out of curiosity, (nothing more than a few dollars) to see what they looked like in hand. I thought about collecting various examples of the better fakes, but i kept getting outbid by buyers who thought they were genuine. Better to save for real coins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gxseries Posted May 13, 2008 Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 I actually don't mind but there is a high possibility of ebay sellers striking back on forums and threatening to sue. It happened on cointalk a couple of times and we don't really want to be scrutinized. Again, most threads about counterfeits if are backed up with proper evidence remain ok in my opinion. However when it gets to "high" quality counterfeits where it's difficult to determine the case, this is where it gets into a grey area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostDutchman Posted May 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 well I think to do it properly it would have to be looked at by many people... I don't see how making a separate section for it is any different from what is going on now... I would make it open to advanced members only.... and forum regulars... and keep the same format that we have now... I think this coin is fake... here is why... what do others think if you feel like reporting it on your own... this is how you do it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottishmoney Posted May 13, 2008 Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 well I think to do it properly it would have to be looked at by many people... I don't see how making a separate section for it is any different from what is going on now... I would make it open to advanced members only.... and forum regulars... and keep the same format that we have now... I think this coin is fake... here is why... what do others think if you feel like reporting it on your own... this is how you do it... Sounds all the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gxseries Posted May 13, 2008 Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 I do agree with advanced members making their comments. There is one critical difference that is in this Russian coin forum, I believe we are really blessed that we have two excellent writers, namely RW Julian and Steve Moulding, both writers and editors for the Russian Numismatic Society. This is not granted in every other forums and this is perhaps why this forum differs vastly from other forums. Not to forget to mention, there are other forum members here who do have excellent collections to contribute to the discussion. Again, not something you can just ignore - genuine coin collection can be used to identify against possible fakes or even interesting varieties. I do admit that I learned a lot from the experts as well as plenty more to come. (Honestly though, there are times when it gets quite problematic when disputes appear and that's when moderators get their headaches Not the first but I don't think it'll end ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostDutchman Posted May 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 I was just thinking out loud... I do see how the Russian forum is different and i like it... thats all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted May 13, 2008 Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 Actually LostDutchman, it is a great idea. For the whole forum, not just the Russian section. Just today on fleaBay I have seen several fakes, and even fake slabs in the USA gold section. As you point out, the problem is not just Russian coins. In fact, it's not just coins - as this link makes clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akdrv Posted May 14, 2008 Report Share Posted May 14, 2008 Great idea. With more and more fakes floating around, I'm sure it will be a popular area on CoinPeople. I setup a new forum: http://www.coinpeople.com/index.php?showforum=259 with a big fat disclaimer: Views and opinions expressed in these forums are the author's, and do not necessarily represent those of Coin People forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted May 14, 2008 Report Share Posted May 14, 2008 Great idea. With more and more fakes floating around, I'm sure it will be a popular area on CoinPeople. I setup a new forum: http://www.coinpeople.com/index.php?showforum=259 with a big fat disclaimer: Views and opinions expressed in these forums are the author's, and do not necessarily represent those of Coin People forum. I opened the link, but don't see the disclaimer in it. Could the fake coins forum appear in the menu at the top of the page? If traffic on this subject in the Russian forum is any guide, it might prove to be a very active section of this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akdrv Posted May 14, 2008 Report Share Posted May 14, 2008 The disclaimer is on the front page, under the forum link. I will put something in the forum itself when I figure out how. I added a link in the top menu as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted May 14, 2008 Report Share Posted May 14, 2008 The disclaimer is on the front page, under the forum link. I will put something in the forum itself when I figure out how. I didn't look there, just in the forum itself (following the link from this thread). I added a link in the top menu as well. Thank you. I find the top menu very useful for skipping around the board. All the forums that are of interest to me are found there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted May 14, 2008 Report Share Posted May 14, 2008 Great idea. With more and more fakes floating around, I'm sure it will be a popular area on CoinPeople. I setup a new forum: http://www.coinpeople.com/index.php?showforum=259 with a big fat disclaimer: Views and opinions expressed in these forums are the author's, and do not necessarily represent those of Coin People forum. BRAVO! I've wanted to see this happen for a long time ... it will be a very good forum, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottishmoney Posted May 14, 2008 Report Share Posted May 14, 2008 Great idea. With more and more fakes floating around, I'm sure it will be a popular area on CoinPeople. I setup a new forum: http://www.coinpeople.com/index.php?showforum=259 with a big fat disclaimer: Views and opinions expressed in these forums are the author's, and do not necessarily represent those of Coin People forum. Which bites that you have to have the disclaimer, but then I have seen another forum get into some hot water because of opins expressed therein about the grades of coins on fleaBay. Well done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roaddevil Posted May 14, 2008 Report Share Posted May 14, 2008 nice addition guys/gals hope we attract more experts to the forum also ... can never hurt to have enough.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted May 14, 2008 Report Share Posted May 14, 2008 I Just posted up on the new forum category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruble Posted May 14, 2008 Report Share Posted May 14, 2008 I dont think its a good idea. Many people are not professional in determining whether a coin is fake or not (in case of high quality fakes) Why a decision should be based on people noone knows. It might work if there is a certain body/organisation with certified/registered people etc. What if pictures of coins are stolen or amended on computer to look original? I think its too comlicated and grey area... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted May 14, 2008 Report Share Posted May 14, 2008 I dont think its a good idea. Many people are not professional in determining whether a coin is fake or not (in case of high quality fakes)Why a decision should be based on people noone knows. It might work if there is a certain body/organisation with certified/registered people etc. What if pictures of coins are stolen or amended on computer to look original? I think its too comlicated and grey area... I'm not sure that it makes such a big difference. To me, it looks like a significant amount of the traffic on the Russian forum is being moved out to its own forum where it will be mixed in with similar messages about questionable coins from other countries. This might (or might not) be a good idea. I am undecided at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted May 14, 2008 Report Share Posted May 14, 2008 I dont think its a good idea. Many people are not professional in determining whether a coin is fake or not (in case of high quality fakes)Why a decision should be based on people noone knows. It might work if there is a certain body/organisation with certified/registered people etc. What if pictures of coins are stolen or amended on computer to look original? I think its too comlicated and grey area... It is a very complicated area. However, there is a big difference in determining if a coin is fake, or if it is genuine, from images. The former is possible if there are enough differences in the design to go by. The latter is never possible! Therefore, if someone says: "the coin depicted in this image ... is fake, because ...", there is no problem if it is the case. OTOH, nobody can say: "This is a genuine coin ... " What if the coin's weight or dimensions aren't correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maya Posted May 14, 2008 Report Share Posted May 14, 2008 Great idea. With more and more fakes floating around, I'm sure it will be a popular area on CoinPeople. I setup a new forum: http://www.coinpeople.com/index.php?showforum=259 with a big fat disclaimer: Views and opinions expressed in these forums are the author's, and do not necessarily represent those of Coin People forum. This is great! I seem to remember quite a few discussions about having a Russian forum on fakes and the drawback of possible law suits. I know that some of our members, namely RW Julian, WCO, and many others (please forgive me for not mentioning everybody), have made a special effort to warn us of fakes. With the problem of fakes escalating beyond all reason, proportionally to - and prehaps because of - escalating prices, the necessity and the benefits of this new forum will far outweigh any possible difficulties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antikvarius Posted May 15, 2008 Report Share Posted May 15, 2008 Hi everybody! This subject is quite interesting and urgent. I have been reading this topic together with Mr. Bitkin and we want to share with you some information. Right now we are making a Web page of Vladimir Bitkin. There will be a new additions to his catalogs on coins and medals and also announcements of new books. We are planning to make there a section for answering on some questions. Vladimir is corresponding with many collectors and answering many questions privately, not publicly. When I saw all that correspondence I regretted about the fact that only one person is able to read it. Then I’ve proposed to Vladimir to post the most interesting questions and answers on his Web-site for general use and got his agreement. One of those questions deals exactly with conclusions based on the scans. You really can’t judge categorically about authenticity of coin or medal looking on its scan. We saw many times on forums when coins and medals that are obviously genuine were identified as a fakes and other way round. To say something worthwhile you have to know at least the technical information: dimensions, exact weight, pay attention to the edge. Scans should have high resolution. But undoubtedly obvious fakes should be placed for the public usage. Those who just started to collect should be able to find an answer on his question without asking the same old thing over and over again on forums. It should eliminate many similar questions on forums. So we think such database is quite necessary. With respect, Alex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted May 15, 2008 Report Share Posted May 15, 2008 Right now we are making a Web page of Vladimir Bitkin. There will be a new additions to his catalogs on coins and medals and also announcements of new books. We are planning to make there a section for answering on some questions. This is an excellent idea. Having the information in an archived (e.g. *.zip) format that can be downloaded will help reduce the load on your server by allowing us to keep local copies on our own computers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted May 15, 2008 Report Share Posted May 15, 2008 Hi everybody!This subject is quite interesting and urgent. I have been reading this topic together with Mr. Bitkin and we want to share with you some information...[snip] Excellent! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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