frank Posted March 22, 2008 Report Share Posted March 22, 2008 I've had this jeton for a few years and haven't been able to identify its probable date or country of origin. It looks rather like some German 18th-century jetons I've seen, same style and make, but I haven't had any luck searching German sites for clues. The obverse shows scales, both in their case and out, along with ... what? a heater? a smoker? on the right side. The other side shows what's probably a dove flying over a landscape with an olive branch, unless it's a halcyon, the bird whose presence traditionally calms the waves. What do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted March 22, 2008 Report Share Posted March 22, 2008 I've had this jeton for a few years and haven't been able to identify its probable date or country of origin. It looks rather like some German 18th-century jetons I've seen, same style and make, but I haven't had any luck searching German sites for clues. The obverse shows scales, both in their case and out, along with ... what? a heater? a smoker? on the right side. The other side shows what's probably a dove flying over a landscape with an olive branch, unless it's a halcyon, the bird whose presence traditionally calms the waves. What do you think? I think it is Dutch, not German. A google books search found a numismatic book "Handleiding voor Verzamelaars van nederlandsche Historiepenningen" By G. Van Orden (Published 1825). Your jeton appears to be #1357 as shown in the picture below: Now all you need is someone who is fluent in Dutch to translate it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank Posted April 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2008 Thanks a million grivna -- this is very helpful! Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banivechi Posted April 1, 2008 Report Share Posted April 1, 2008 Congrats Grivna! It was not a simple identification, and it was fast! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
constanius Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 The dutch means: Picture of dove with olive branch in its beak flying over the water. A picture of a pair of balance scales, A pair of assaying scales (Goldsmith or Silversmith) and a smelting oven. Depicted without date, probably a lake in Holland a good medal from the Nederlands. This is just an Englishman's stab at the meaning using a computer but I believe its correct. I will have a go at the latin later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
constanius Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 Respondent Intima Quato = To answer or announce by how much. Which I take to mean what weight, and because of the smelting oven and assaying scales, I assume how much precious metal is there. It could be the ore being weighed in the balance scale and then the gold or silver refined using the smelting oven and finally the assaying scales used. Quiescam Et Quiescere Faciam = To rest and by resting the making of it. Or the making of peace by stopping. Which I believe must be the correct interpretation because of the peace dove with olive branch. Hope this helps. I used the same source that Grivna was so quick in finding, and checking a number of medals described both before this one, and after it, it would appear that yours is from 1677 or 1678 as the listings are in date order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
constanius Posted April 3, 2008 Report Share Posted April 3, 2008 Treaty of Breda (1667), signed at the Dutch city of Breda, July 31, 1667, by England, the United Provinces (the Netherlands), France, and Denmark. It brought a hasty and inconclusive end to the Second Anglo-Dutch War (1665–1667) This could be what the medallion commemmorates. The dove and olive branch for the peace treaty, and the scales for weighing out or balancing the concessions made by all the parties to the treaty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank Posted April 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2008 Thanks Constanius for the research. I am woefully ignorant on the finer points of 17th (and 18th!!) -century European wars and treaties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
constanius Posted June 15, 2010 Report Share Posted June 15, 2010 De Vrede van Nijmegen in penningen = The Treaty of Nijmegen in tokens http://www.noviomagus.nl/Gastredactie/VDZe...egen%201687.pdf takes a minute to load, but worth the wait. Your token is shown page 12/59 or actual page # on page 456. NYM10a Rekenpenning “Vredesonderhandelingen te Nijmegen”, 1677 Brons, Ø 27 mm. Vz.: vredesduif met olijftak vliegt over water en bergen. QVIESCAM ET QVIESCERE FACIAM (ik zal rusten en laten rusten) Kz.: balans in evenwicht met geld en gewicht, een smeltoven en een muntgewichtkast. Onderaan 8 of 15 stenen. RESPONDENTINTIMA QUANTO (ze geven precies aan hoeveel) Lit.: Dugniolle nr. 4384, vOrden 1357 27.0 mm, 4,70 g. Neumann 31810. balans in evenwicht met geld en gewicht, een smeltoven en een muntgewichtkast. Onderaan 8 of 15 stenen = balance with money and weight, a melting furnace and a currency weight Cabinet. At the bottom of 8 or 15 stones ze geven precies aan hoeveel= They show exactly how many Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank Posted June 16, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2010 I think that just about nails down that jeton once and for all, Constanius. Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bagerap Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 I saw this three minutes before the sale closed and vaguely remembered this thread. Thankfully it was cheap! Spot the mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 nice find! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bagerap Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Ian, look again. The weights are in the wrong pans. Later, much later, re-strike I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 The example I have is much the same as yours. I'm not so sure concerning the `much later re-strike' aspect however. I'll check to see if Mitchiner has it listed when I get the chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bagerap Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 The same seller is now on his third or fourth offering. Either he has a hoard or..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 It's not uncommon to come across a seller with a number of jetons all the same. They sell them off separately in order to get people competing as opposed to indicating they have a stash and people waiting to see how low you will go in order to get them gone. There's a certain irony to that selling strategy, at least as far as some french jetons are concerned. Many `royal' jetons were presented at new year to the recipient in a purse. They are far more valuable collectively with the purse than they ever would be if sold separately. I don't think this is a particularly rare jeton, but its not common as muck either. Like most jetons it is more likely than not that more than one die was used in producing the required mintage (whatever that was for this particuar issue). I don't know for sure regarding whether or not our examples are those of a re-strike or a contemporary `copy. However, I would be very surprised if they were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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