Coinmelt Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 Woah. It was down earlier today and now it just went over $21/oz. Current bid/ask: 21.07/21.10 Should be a fun ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristofer Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 Woah. It was down earlier today and now it just went over $21/oz. Current bid/ask: 21.07/21.10 Should be a fun ride. Makes me happy I didn't sell when it was 13.50 an ounce! I argued with the salesman, he only wanted to buy it for 11. This is his exact quote "Silver hit it's peak this year, it's only going to decline." My Reply, "We're in a war and the fed has an interest rate that is rock bottom, we'll be in a recession soon enough. In recessions, PM prices go up." His Reply, "Yeah, I don't think America will be seeing a recessions for many, many years to come. Come back in 2013." Well, the way this story ends is: I went back to him about two months ago and said "I figured I'd come in 5 years early to let you know a recession is beginning, and guess what, it's partly because of the low fed rate and banks going nuts with lending." He laughed and asked if I wanted to sell my silver for 13.50, I said I'll pass because silver will keep going up. For how long, I have no idea. I imagine until the economy stabilizes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vfox Posted March 8, 2008 Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 As soon as the housing market stabalizes we will see prices drop a bit again, but that may not be for months. Personally I don't think it will fall below $15 this year, or go above $26. I could be wrong, just like that dealer, but we will see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtryka Posted March 9, 2008 Report Share Posted March 9, 2008 I bought a nice BU 1923 peace dollar today for $17 and I thought it was a good deal, but then I remember when I could buy all the BU peace dollars I could carry for $10 each back in 2000! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristofer Posted March 9, 2008 Report Share Posted March 9, 2008 As soon as the housing market stabalizes we will see prices drop a bit again, but that may not be for months. Personally I don't think it will fall below $15 this year, or go above $26. I could be wrong, just like that dealer, but we will see. You won't see a stable housing market for sometime. The market won't go stable until people are done foreclosing. All they've done so far is effectively postponed foreclosures. When prices drop low enough on houses you'll see a pick up in the buying market but you'll still have people foreclosing for quite a while. Right now people are taking out loans to pay the mortgages until times get better but in my opinion we're going to continue on down this path for some time. I don't know if the bankers really know what they've gotten themselves into. not to mention how many people lost money on their housing "investment" some people are purposely foreclosing because they'd rather bite the bullet for 7 - 10 years then take a 100K hit to their wallet. I've already started seeing stories about people allowing foreclosure to happen because their house value had dropped so much that it wasn't worth paying it off. Could you imagine being that upside down in your house? The banks paid appraisers to over appraise to inflate the loans so they could sell the loans to customers who couldn't read the fine print. Effectively creating one of the worst housing bubbles in history, we've only begun to see the ramifications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Charlie Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 You know I agree with a lot of what you say. Silver is making crazy moves lately, but it's mainly due to the unstablized econmy we're suffering right now. I once bought an American Silver Eagle from litleton at only $9.00!! Of course, that was in 2005 and back then things were much different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt-AWACS Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 Saw US $1 silver eagles selling for 23$US today, something I wouldn't have thought a few years ago. It will probably hit 25$US to peak as the dollar falls a bit lower. Ciao, AWACS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristofer Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 I don't know, the more I read the more I question the likelihood of gold and silver coming back down. inflation adjusted taken into account, gold and silver are highly undervalued. I've read page after page of information and some people are forecasting gold and silver to make a break away run to astronomical values. Personally I wish I had some money that I could sink into gold, but 1,000.00 is a noticeable percentage out of my savings, but then again holding much of my assets in paper money is pretty risky these days too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vfox Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 Gold is NOT a rare ore, and the people who own the mines have thousands of tons of the stuff available to them. It all depends on when it is cost effective for them to open the mines, right now is a good time for them and will eventually create enough extra gold in the market to stem price increases. The mine owners don't want that, but supply and demand ya know. The economy is the biggest player in the price however, and we all know what that is doing right now. Here is some info: In 2005 the World Gold Council estimated total global gold supply to be 3,859 tonnes and demand to be 3,754 tonnes, giving a surplus of 105 tonnes. (WIKI) The average gold mining and extraction costs are $238 per troy ounce but these can vary widely depending on mining type and ore quality. In 2001, global mine production amounted to 2,604 tonnes, or 67% of total gold demand in that year. At the end of 2001, it was estimated that all the gold ever mined totalled 145,000 tonnes.(WIKI) At current consumption rates, the supply of gold is believed to last 45 years.(WIKI) Http://www.nodirtygold.org/ is a site/organization that promotes the mining of ethically sourced gold/precious metals; if anyone cares tp research a bit. The ethical metal smiths jewelers collective is an organization that supports this cause and also the "mining" of recycled gold from areas around you. Basically there is enough scrap gold in the immediate environment to support the US need for gold for around 10 years. This includes computer science venues, jewelry, bullion, and misc uses for gold. Silver is the same, all of the silver jewelry I make contains 90%+ silver from a recycled sources, both coins and old jewelry alloyed up to sterling with bullion fine silver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristofer Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 Gold is NOT a rare ore, and the people who own the mines have thousands of tons of the stuff available to them. It all depends on when it is cost effective for them to open the mines, right now is a good time for them and will eventually create enough extra gold in the market to stem price increases. The mine owners don't want that, but supply and demand ya know. The economy is the biggest player in the price however, and we all know what that is doing right now. Here is some info: In 2005 the World Gold Council estimated total global gold supply to be 3,859 tonnes and demand to be 3,754 tonnes, giving a surplus of 105 tonnes. (WIKI) The average gold mining and extraction costs are $238 per troy ounce but these can vary widely depending on mining type and ore quality. In 2001, global mine production amounted to 2,604 tonnes, or 67% of total gold demand in that year. At the end of 2001, it was estimated that all the gold ever mined totalled 145,000 tonnes.(WIKI) At current consumption rates, the supply of gold is believed to last 45 years.(WIKI) Http://www.nodirtygold.org/ is a site/organization that promotes the mining of ethically sourced gold/precious metals; if anyone cares tp research a bit. The ethical metal smiths jewelers collective is an organization that supports this cause and also the "mining" of recycled gold from areas around you. Basically there is enough scrap gold in the immediate environment to support the US need for gold for around 10 years. This includes computer science venues, jewelry, bullion, and misc uses for gold. Silver is the same, all of the silver jewelry I make contains 90%+ silver from a recycled sources, both coins and old jewelry alloyed up to sterling with bullion fine silver. The same goes for diamonds but people love their jewelry, and the resellers love restricting the supply. If you know of a cheaper way to obtain gold please let me know because I like it scarce or not. It makes beautiful coins! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coinmelt Posted March 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 It's been up and down all week. Went down to 19.45 for a few hours. Now back over 20. Haven't seen it get any higher then what I originally posted just yet. Yeah, they do limit supply on diamonds to keep the price up. I saw something on the news a few years ago about a start-up company that can create diamonds. Not CZ but actual diamonds. They have these odd size chambers and not sure how the technology works but they went and got them from Germany and hacked them up. Not sure whatever happened to that company but it was tested and worked. Wish I could remember the name of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vfox Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 The same goes for diamonds but people love their jewelry, and the resellers love restricting the supply. If you know of a cheaper way to obtain gold please let me know because I like it scarce or not. It makes beautiful coins! There is a huge class-action lawsuit against Debeers underway for limiting supply and basically driving up the prices. You can join the lawsuit if you've purchased any diamonds from them as well. http://consumerist.com/344472/bought-a-dia...debeers-lawsuit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiho Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 There is a huge class-action lawsuit against Debeers underway for limiting supply and basically driving up the prices. You can join the lawsuit if you've purchased any diamonds from them as well. http://consumerist.com/344472/bought-a-dia...debeers-lawsuit One of my friends is part of the DeBeers lawsuit and expects to receive at least a thousand dollar "refund". Sounds like a lot but his wife will spend it in no time. I have never been interested in diamonds, nor have I ever wanted to buy bullion. It's the coin that matters for me. Having said that I wish I had bought 20 1oz platinum coins when platinum was $300/oz... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtryka Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 vfox, some of your figures are very outdated, as a LOT has changed since 2005! I remember back in the early part of the decade, with cash costs in those ranges, most analysts beleived that a move to the 1980 highs in nominal terms would be a boom for miners. What they didn't count on was $110 oil affecting the huge costs of energy and supplies, like giant tires for 70-ton dump trucks. In Goldcorp's 3Q report, they sold 524,000 ounces of gold and posted an operaitng profit of $155.4 million, or about $297 per ounce. Their average selling price was $685, so that leaves you an average cost of $388, over 63% higher than a few years ago! You are caught in the same trap that I and all the other analysts fell into a few years ago, the hidden assumption that the gold in the ground always has the same cost, and the only thing that can change is the market price. Once you buy a gold property, only that component is fixed, the cost of extraction is highly variable, and over the last three years has increased at a faster rate than the price of gold. And as for silver, the picture is much more complex as silver is actually consumed in industrial applications (last I checked there was no cost effective way to even bring silver oxide back to pure silver!). The billions of ounces of silver we once had are long gone (witness the fact that the US Mint has no silver left and has been buying silver on the open market for eagles and commems since 2005). Add to this the fact that there are very few significant pure silver mining operations, as silver is now just a byproduct of gold or base metal mining. The picture in my mind for silver is probably brighter than for gold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vfox Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 vfox, some of your figures are very outdated, as a LOT has changed since 2005! I know, but that is the only information I could find for some reason. The mines are still making a killing though, thinking otherwise is turning away from the truth in my opinion. If you're making 155 million in profit that very much outweighs the costs. This also holds true for the price of gold being 300 dollars over their average selling cost while oil has not increased past 110 dollars a barrel since then. I may be wrong, I'm no market analyst, this is true, but everything seems to point in the same direction for the mines, oil stabalizes around $100 a barrel, gold price increases without mining cost increasing, then profit increases. Gold mines make silver and other ore as a by-product, this is true, but this is sold as well...so profit is profit. As for the methods used to mine silver, they are getting nearly as destructive as gold, just on a smaller scale. You can dissolve silver oxides in mercury and from there it is the same basic steps that they use to optain refined gold. Cyanide being the main tool seems to be a big problem as well, cyanide pools break down in sunlight after use, but on occasion leak. I would hate to live near a mines watertable I can tell you that...yeesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottishmoney Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 As an interesting side note, last summer I was trying to peddle these off at $12.50 an oz, no takers: So now they languish in my bank's vault, gathering value all the while now almost worth $2500 more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristofer Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 As an interesting side note, last summer I was trying to peddle these off at $12.50 an oz, no takers: So now they languish in my bank's vault, gathering value all the while now almost worth $2500 more. ICK!! They're all toned and gouged!! And someone crudely wrote their name in them too, "ENGELHARDT" I hope he's ashamed of himself. Horrific, I'll give you 6$ an ounce. final offer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drusus Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 Compared to other transition metals, Gold IS rather rare. Like all the Super Nova Metals, there is only a finite amount and compared to most others, there is far less of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zjemller Posted March 18, 2008 Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 This is just the beginning. It is not so much that the price of silver is going up, but that the dollar is falling against all major curenncies. One about month ago a Euro was $1.47 now it is $1.57. A couple of years ago a dollar was more than a Euro!!! My best guess is that in the coming months silver will hit $30/oz and gold $1250/oz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henare Posted March 18, 2008 Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 ICK!! They're all toned and gouged!! And someone crudely wrote their name in them too, "ENGELHARDT" I hope he's ashamed of himself. Horrific, I'll give you 6$ an ounce. final offer! honestly! it's supposed to say "Engelhardt was here!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristofer Posted March 18, 2008 Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 honestly! it's supposed to say "Engelhardt was here!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottishmoney Posted March 18, 2008 Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 This is just the beginning. It is not so much that the price of silver is going up, but that the dollar is falling against all major curenncies. One about month ago a Euro was $1.47 now it is $1.57. A couple of years ago a dollar was more than a Euro!!! My best guess is that in the coming months silver will hit $30/oz and gold $1250/oz. Like your avatar, that is cool. Twenty years ago I wouldn't have dreamed that Bulgaria would be commemorating joining NATO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristofer Posted March 18, 2008 Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 Like your avatar, that is cool. Twenty years ago I wouldn't have dreamed that Bulgaria would be commemorating joining NATO. Me neither, but that's mainly due to me being an infant 20 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coinmelt Posted March 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 Silver is starting to tank.. fell below 19... is currently at $18.39/oz! I'm not even close to stopping the hoard... buy 'em while they're cheap Fed cut percentages more then we thought they would... http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...mp;refer=canada Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristofer Posted March 19, 2008 Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 Silver is starting to tank.. fell below 19... is currently at $18.39/oz! I'm not even close to stopping the hoard... buy 'em while they're cheap Fed cut percentages more then we thought they would... http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...mp;refer=canada I'm very much a buy it when it's cheap person. If the true price isn't realized now it will be eventually! If not, at least it shines nicely! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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