grivna1726 Posted February 18, 2008 Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 I found the following Russian language auction lot description of the 1724 Coronation jeton in silver. If I understand correctly, there were 12,000 jetons struck in silver. This jeton was also struck in gold. Does anyone know the mintage of the gold jeton or where that information might be obtained? Thank you for any help. Жетон в память коронования Императрицы Екатерины I, 7 мая 1724 г. Москва, Кадашевский монетный двор. Серебро, 3,08 г. Диаметр 20,7 мм. Сохранность почти отличная. СРМ# 90. Иверсен# LV.7. Биткин# Ж3882 (R1). Дьяков# 60.10 (R1). Соколов# 075.10.1 ®. Руденко.1724.6 (R2). Аналог см. Смирнов# 212. Было отчеканено 12000 серебряных жетонов. Очень редкий. 15 февраля 1723 г. Император Петр I издал манифест о короновании супруги, делившей с ним как опасности войны, так и заботы управления государством. Нездоровье Государя отсрочило исполнение его намерения. 16 февраля 1724 г. он уехал с супругой на лечение минеральными водами в Олонец. По окончании курса лечения Император отправился в Москву, где коронование совершилось 7 мая с большой пышностью. (Иверсен Ю.Б. Медали на деяния Императора Петра Великого. СПб., 1872. С. 59). Гольштейнский камер-юнкер Ф.В.Берхгольц в своем «Дневнике» сообщает, что 7 мая 1724 г. после коронования Императрицы Екатерины Алексеевны, во время торжественного шествия из Успенского в Архангельский собор «князь Меншиков бросал в народ маленькие золотые и серебряные медали и ходил в сопровождении статс-комиссаров Принценштиерна и еще другого, по фамилии Плещеев, носивших эти монеты в больших красных бархатных мешках, на которых вышит был императорский орел». Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timofei Posted February 18, 2008 Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 2000 original gold pieces according to Igor Rudenko's catalog, novodel gold badges should be far less in quantity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgorS Posted February 18, 2008 Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 Igor Rudenko's site is www.jetons.ru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted February 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 Igor Rudenko's site is www.jetons.ru Thank you to both of you, Timofei and IgorS for your replies. I did not know about Igor Rudenko's website and will visit it soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timofei Posted February 18, 2008 Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 Thank you to both of you, Timofei and IgorS for your replies. I did not know about Igor Rudenko's website and will visit it soon. I hate advertisements, but if you see anywhere on eBay Igor's printed catalog on the jetons - grab it right away, you would not regret. It is so detailed and well edited - you can browse the pages just for pleasure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted February 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 I hate advertisements, but if you see anywhere on eBay Igor's printed catalog on the jetons - grab it right away, you would not regret. It is so detailed and well edited - you can browse the pages just for pleasure. Thank you, I will do so. I have very little information in my numismatic library on the subject of Russian jetons. I find it interesting that the gold coronation jetons were struck to the ducat standard until Alexander I, when they were for some reason switched to the 5 roubles coin standard. I wonder why Alexander I changed from the traditional ducat standard to the 5 roubles specification for his coronation jeton? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timofei Posted February 18, 2008 Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 Thank you, I will do so. I have very little information in my numismatic library on the subject of Russian jetons. I find it interesting that the gold coronation jetons were struck to the ducat standard until Alexander I, when they were for some reason switched to the 5 roubles coin standard. I wonder why Alexander I changed from the traditional ducat standard to the 5 roubles specification for his coronation jeton? Did he have any dukat made (besides Dutch-like) during his reign? I doubt that it was something like a written law for full 87 years that all coronation jetons should be made exactly at the same weight. I have in my collection of jetons various silver Peace with Turkey. For example, 2 of them are of the same die but one is made against 20 kop weight and the other on a 25 kop planchet (with a rim of polupoltinnik). One of the gold jetons I have (Elisabeth coronation) was made on Anna dukat - with the traces of original very rare coin visible undr the jeton. Nothing strange I guess. The events were usually sudden (like a tzar coronation or death) and jetons were prepared in rush and "in emergency" - contrary to long discussed weights\designs of the coins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted February 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 Did he have any dukat made (besides Dutch-like) during his reign? Not that I know. Other than imitation Dutch ducats, I am unaware of any ducat coins issued after Paul. For Alexander I, gold coins were only 5 & 10 roubles. Later, 3 roubles gold coins were struck & were close to the ducat in terms of gold content. I doubt that it was something like a written law for full 87 years that all coronation jetons should be made exactly at the same weight. I have in my collection of jetons various silver Peace with Turkey. For example, 2 of them are of the same die but one is made against 20 kop weight and the other on a 25 kop planchet (with a rim of polupoltinnik). That is very interesting. The silver seem to be about 20 kopeks (give or take 5 kopeks) standard, so there is variation. So far as I have been able to find out (given the relative lack of gold jetons seen and the limited information available to me), the 18th century gold jetons adhered more closely to the ducat standard. One of the gold jetons I have (Elisabeth coronation) was made on Anna dukat - with the traces of original very rare coin visible undr the jeton. Overstruck on a 1739, correct? I saved pictures of it. Wonderful example, I wish it was mine. Nothing strange I guess. The events were usually sudden (like a tzar coronation or death) and jetons were prepared in rush and "in emergency" - contrary to long discussed weights\designs of the coins. Maybe the mint just used whatever planchets that were easily available and about the right size. Ducats were the only gold that fit while 15-25 kopeks in silver would work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timofei Posted February 18, 2008 Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 Not that I know. Other than imitation Dutch ducats, I am unaware of any ducat coins issued after Paul. Yes, they were issed. http://www.numismat.ru/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi...97&number=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted February 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 Yes, they were issed. http://www.numismat.ru/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi...97&number=1 I guess I didn't express myself very clearly. I know that there are ducats of Paul. I said I did not know of any ducats (except Dutch type) after Paul (meaning no ducats for Alexander I and later). I don't have any of Paul's gold. Congratulations on the coronation ducat/jeton. I don't have one of those, but I do have the undercoin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyal Citizen Posted February 18, 2008 Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 2000 original gold pieces according to Igor Rudenko's catalog, novodel gold badges should be far less in quantity. Looking at the Rudenko's catalog and trying to find mintage tables...Where are they ? Thanks ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgorS Posted February 19, 2008 Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 Looking at the Rudenko's catalog and trying to find mintage tables...Where are they ? Thanks ! They are in the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyal Citizen Posted February 19, 2008 Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 They are in the book. Hmmm..will check again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maya Posted February 19, 2008 Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 I hate advertisements, but if you see anywhere on eBay Igor's printed catalog on the jetons - grab it right away, you would not regret. It is so detailed and well edited - you can browse the pages just for pleasure. Thank you, I will do so. I have very little information in my numismatic library on the subject of Russian jetons. Is this what you are looking for? http://cgi.ebay.com/Commemorative-Badges-o...1742.m153.l1262 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted February 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 Is this what you are looking for? http://cgi.ebay.com/Commemorative-Badges-o...1742.m153.l1262 Yes, that is the book. Thank you, Maya. I will think about it. It is more expensive than I thought it might be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgorS Posted February 20, 2008 Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 Hmmm..will check again The book, not the site Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyal Citizen Posted February 20, 2008 Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 The book, not the site Checked it. Still do not see mintage numbers for all the jetons ?? Getting older..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted February 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 Checked it. Still do not see mintage numbers for all the jetons ?? Getting older..... The description of the book in the ebay link Maya gave says "В каталоге указаны тиражи большинства жетонов, их разновидности по штемпелям и гуртовому оформлению." My Russian is very poor, but I think this means that mintage figures are given for most of the jetons, but not all of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyal Citizen Posted February 20, 2008 Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 The description of the book in the ebay link Maya gave says "В каталоге указаны тиражи большинства жетонов, их разновидности по штемпелям и гуртовому оформлению." My Russian is very poor, but I think this means that mintage figures are given for most of the jetons, but not all of them. Hmm...I really saw just a few mintages listed...Will check again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgorS Posted February 20, 2008 Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 The description of the book in the ebay link Maya gave says "В каталоге указаны тиражи большинства жетонов, их разновидности по штемпелям и гуртовому оформлению." My Russian is very poor, but I think this means that mintage figures are given for most of the jetons, but not all of them. The mintage numbers in the book are right before the tables describing rarity and valuations for each jeton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyal Citizen Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 The mintage numbers in the book are right before the tables describing rarity and valuations for each jeton. Finally, I've found the mintage numbers. I'd say , probably, 60-70% of the listed jetons have mintage numbers or some kind of reference. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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