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Soviet Die Varieties


JamesW
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Hi,

In the past I purchased several Soviet minor coins described as "mules". These appear to be normal coins at first glance, however I have come to realize that some Soviet coins vary by wreath design and some of these varieties appear to be quite popular in Russia. I do not know much about these varieties or how to tell them apart. Can someone recommend a book or other reference detailing these coins? Thanks

 

-James

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Hi,

In the past I purchased several Soviet minor coins described as "mules". These appear to be normal coins at first glance, however I have come to realize that some Soviet coins vary by wreath design and some of these varieties appear to be quite popular in Russia. I do not know much about these varieties or how to tell them apart. Can someone recommend a book or other reference detailing these coins? Thanks

 

-James

 

 

I only know 1 book on the subject, but it is in Russian. It is by Andrei Fedorin (Андрей Федорин) - "Монеты Страны Советов. 1921 - 1991 гг. Каталог"

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Hi,

In the past I purchased several Soviet minor coins described as "mules". These appear to be normal coins at first glance, however I have come to realize that some Soviet coins vary by wreath design and some of these varieties appear to be quite popular in Russia. I do not know much about these varieties or how to tell them apart. Can someone recommend a book or other reference detailing these coins? Thanks

 

-James

 

Hallo James, and wellcome to Coin-people's!

 

what kind of mules do You mean? :ninja:

 

may be any pics will help to me answer on Your question..

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Hi,

In the past I purchased several Soviet minor coins described as "mules". These appear to be normal coins at first glance, however I have come to realize that some Soviet coins vary by wreath design and some of these varieties appear to be quite popular in Russia. I do not know much about these varieties or how to tell them apart. Can someone recommend a book or other reference detailing these coins? Thanks

 

-James

 

 

I would recommened the book of Yaroslav Adrianov "Moneti sovetskogo gosudarstva i sovremennoy Rossii" (Coins of Soviet Union and Modern Russia), 2005, 255 pages. Text on Russian. The best book for varieties as of now. If you do not find it there than nowhere. You may want to post pictures of "mules" on this forum. Some of them most likely are not "mules" but just varieties.

 

WCO

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what kind of mules do You mean? :ninja:

A mule (the animal) is the offspring of a horse paired with a donkey. There are different terms depending on which is male and which is female, but I forget what they are. With coins, a mule is when the obverse of one variety is paired with the reverse of a different variety.

 

At least, this is my understanding of the definition of a "mule".

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I would recommened the book of Yaroslav Adrianov "Moneti sovetskogo gosudarstva i sovremennoy Rossii" (Coins of Soviet Union and Modern Russia), 2005, 255 pages. Text on Russian. The best book for varieties as of now. If you do not find it there than nowhere. You may want to post pictures of "mules" on this forum. Some of them most likely are not "mules" but just varieties.

 

WCO

 

 

I had no idea Adrainov published a book on soviet die variations! I've seen his book on 19th century silver. Thanks, I'll look into it!

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...

 

With coins, a mule is when the obverse of one variety is paired with the reverse of a different variety.

 

At least, this is my understanding of the definition of a "mule".

 

Not exactly. Easy definition gives MiMi.hu:

"Mule - A coin struck from dies not originally intended to be used together".

 

As with most coins of USSR, especially 3 Kop. vs 20 Kop. varieties, obverse dies for one denomination were often used for another denomination. It was common mint practice. Therefore, they are not mules by definition, no one in Russia call them "mules". Many of them are extremely common. However, some of them are scarce and even rare. For Soviet era coins classic "mule" would be reverse of 5 Kopecks paired with reverse of 50 kopecks, coins made with two obverse or two reverse dies or something the same ridiculous.

 

WCO

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When I think of a mule, it reminds me of the 1957 series when a new die was created just for that year and for some reason, some coins were struck with the older dies. I think it was the difference with 1 ribbon, can't remember if it was 15 for the earlier years and 14 in 1957 or the other way around. There are some though that are quite rare like this one:

 

915437.jpg

 

JamesW, please kindly post what you have there. And also, welcome to coinpeople by the way. :ninja:

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A mule (the animal) is the offspring of a horse paired with a donkey. There are different terms depending on which is male and which is female, but I forget what they are. With coins, a mule is when the obverse of one variety is paired with the reverse of a different variety.

At least, this is my understanding of the definition of a "mule".

This is correct. Mules may either be deliberate or accidental, the latter being the more common.

 

RWJ

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....

With coins, a mule is when the obverse of one variety is paired with the reverse of a different variety.

 

At least, this is my understanding of the definition of a "mule".

 

This is incorrect just because are included cases when "obverse of one variety is paired with the reverse of a different variety". And there are mules made out of two obverse dies or two reverse dies and sometimes of the same variety.

 

This mule made with two reverse dies (one for 20 Cents and another for 50 Cents):

http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?S...mp;Lot_No=52601

 

There is no reason to "invent a bike" or not to trust encyclopedia which states: ""Mule - A coin struck from dies not originally intended to be used together".

 

WCO

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A mule (the animal) is the offspring of a horse paired with a donkey. There are different terms depending on which is male and which is female, but I forget what they are. With coins, a mule is when the obverse of one variety is paired with the reverse of a different variety.

 

At least, this is my understanding of the definition of a "mule".

 

You understand correctly.

 

A mule is a coin that either deliberately or by mistake ended up being struck with a pair of dies that were not intended to be used together.

 

Whether it was deliberately done or not is irrelevant. The key concept is that 2 dies were used together that were not intended to be paired together (like a horse and a donkey), thus producing a mule.

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This is incorrect just because are included cases when "obverse of one variety is paired with the reverse of a different variety". And there are mules made out of two obverse dies or two reverse dies and sometimes of the same variety.

 

This mule made with two reverse dies (one for 20 Cents and another for 50 Cents):

http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?S...mp;Lot_No=52601

 

There is no reason to "invent a bike" or not to trust encyclopedia which states: ""Mule - A coin struck from dies not originally intended to be used together".

 

WCO

Of course, this is a good definition -- I think it was first stated in the book by Breen? However, I think the cases where two obverse dies or two reverse dies were used are pretty small in number and always done by accident. Generally, a mule will have an obverse and a reverse. Anything else I would attribute to the category of "mint error".

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A mule (the animal) is the offspring of a horse paired with a donkey. There are different terms depending on which is male and which is female, but I forget what they are.

 

 

Mule: Female horse, male donkey (jackass)

Hinny: Male horse, female donkey (jenny) :ninja:

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all of them, exept for 15 kop 86 - is a ususal variants and easy can be obtained in circulation.

 

15 kopekcs 1986 - a some kind of a mule, that variant uncommon and can be obtained in mint sets only.

 

but that is not a mule - just a revers of a previous years (1961-1981)

 

Do You that mean as a mule ?

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