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Opinions wanted on rarity of 50k 1899-EB


bobh
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For discussion purposes, I am including a scan of the ratings by V.V. Kazakov from his reference book «Монеты царствования императора Николая II» ("Coins of Tsar Nikolai II"):

 

LINK to scanned image (large picture)

 

I recently acquired the 1899-ЭБ poltina which he values at $300 in F / $1,200 UNC. I bought it on eBay together with a 1924 poltina in similar grade, both for 10 € (about bullion value) ;) It has nice XF detail, heavy patina, but was in some kind of bevel or mount as there are tiny depressions on the edges of the rim (which are not otherwise disturbing). Here is a link to the auction:

 

LINK to eBay auction

 

IMHO, it is very unlikely that I would be so lucky as to find such a rare coin purely by chance :ninja: ... what do you think?

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Good day, Bobh.

 

Interested, what values Kazakov wrote for 1903 50 Kopecks in Fine, VF, XF, Unc and Proof? Also values for 1901 25 Kopecks?

 

Thank you.

WCO

Здравствуйте, WCO!

 

Kazakov lists 1903 50k as "proof only" (US-$ 4,000) - I think that the 2006 NY Sale had one which realized $5,000, though. Therefore, no other prices or grades are given. Although the catalog for the 2006 NY Sale lists the 1903 poltina as "prooflike", most authorities seem to agree that only proofs were issued (not surprising, considering that only 19 coins were "officially" minted, although I have seen some people hinting that after 1917, perhaps some additional coins were minted in unknown quantities).

 

1901 25k: то-же само (the same, proof only, same price).

 

:ninja:

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Thank you, bobh.

 

I asked for these Proof only dates for a reason. I do not have Kazakov book so wanted to see how he listed these two.

 

About 1899-EB I think it is a mistake, this coin is not that rare, just somewhat better mintmaster.

 

WCO

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  • 2 weeks later...

Thanks again, WCO. In the meantime, I have found time to make photos of the coin in question:

 

My 1899-ЭБ poltina

 

Having the coin in hand, I'm not sure now whether the rim problems are really from mount removal or not ... it could be just a really banged-up coin. Too bad, because it does have quite a lot of detail left on it.

 

I'd still like to hear from others regarding this particular year and mintmaster series. For example, how many of you actually own one, and were they difficult to find? Sometimes people just get lucky ... for example, one of the first 5 rouble gold coins I ever bought (back in early 2005) turned out to be 1901-AR (and I paid about melt for it, since it is only VF or so)... :ninja:

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Sometimes people just get lucky ... for example, one of the first 5 rouble gold coins I ever bought (back in early 2005) turned out to be 1901-AR (and I paid about melt for it, since it is only VF or so)... ;)

 

I got lucky in 2006. 5 Rouble 1901 AR MS65 in NGC slab was purchased on Ebay for $115 :ninja: It was in March or April and the average price for simple 5 Rouble (1902, 1903, 1904) MS65-66 in NGC slab was something about $100-110. ;)

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I got lucky in 2006. 5 Rouble 1901 AR MS65 in NGC slab was purchased on Ebay for $115

I agree. The 1901 5 roubles AR is a very scarce coin. The 1901 FZ is fairly common.

 

An example of the rarity was published in the Russian Numismatic Society Journal 83: of the 55

5 rouble pieces seen in the Conros weekly auctions (Nos. 43 through 264), 53 were FZ and 2 were AR.

 

RWJ

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I agree. The 1901 5 roubles AR is a very scarce coin. The 1901 FZ is fairly common.

 

An example of the rarity was published in the Russian Numismatic Society Journal 83: of the 55

5 rouble pieces seen in the Conros weekly auctions (Nos. 43 through 264), 53 were FZ and 2 were AR.

 

RWJ

 

Still, the coin is listed as not scarce in most catalogs.

1901AP_5Rouble.jpg

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Still, the coin is listed as not scarce in most catalogs.

Congratulations, Cheburgen! $115 is a great price even for 1901-FZ in MS-65. :ninja:

I wonder when NGC started adding the mintmaster to the slab label? I have seen several older NGC slabs of 1901 gold 5 roubles offered on eBay where there was only the date on the label. And, of course, it is not possible to view the edge once it is inside the slab...;)

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I'd still like to hear from others regarding this particular year and mintmaster series. For example, how many of you actually own one, and were they difficult to find?

Anybody else ??? :ninja:

 

There are some interesting details WRT this particular mintmaster (EB = Elikum Babayants):

 

- 50 kopeek 1913-EB is scarce (Severin thought it was extremely scarce, but many have been seen);

- the business strike 1913-EB rouble is somewhat less rare than the 1913-BC business strike (not the Romanov rouble);

- the 1913-EB (proof only) strikes of the 20, 15, 10 and 5 kopek coins are very rare, as are the 1912-BC strikes (business, not proof...???... again, according to V.V. Kazakov) of 20 and 15 kopek pieces;

- 1899-EB gold 10 rouble coins are less common, but not scarce by any means;

- Kazakov SAYS that 1899-EB poltiny are VERY scarce, but others (myself included!) seem to think it is not so scarce;

- 1899-EB gold 5 roubles is slightly less common than FZ, but not much;

- 1899-EB rouble is rather common, about the same as the other varieties.

 

Elikum Babayants was mintmaster for a very short period in 1899, presumably between the tenures of Apollon Grasgov and Felix Zaleman. Then he was mintmaster again (1906-1913) after Alexander Redko; after 1913 he was succeeded by Viktor Smirnov. Some of the AR mintmaster coins (especially 1901) are rare, and of the different MM varieties of 1899 gold 5 and 10 rouble coins, EB is the scarcest, but only by a slight margin. Why should this be any different for the 50 kopeek coins? ;)

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I wonder when NGC started adding the mintmaster to the slab label? I have seen several older NGC slabs of 1901 gold 5 roubles offered on eBay where there was only the date on the label. And, of course, it is not possible to view the edge once it is inside the slab...:ninja:

 

I also have a 1901 gold 5 roubles in a NGC slab without the mintmaster's initials. I sent an email to NGC Customer Service and they were able to supply me with the information. Unfortunately it turned out to be an FZ not an AR, but none the less now I know. ;)

 

So if anyone has questions about coins slabbed by NGC the records may be available.

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I also have a 1901 gold 5 roubles in a NGC slab without the mintmaster's initials. I sent an email to NGC Customer Service and they were able to supply me with the information. Unfortunately it turned out to be an FZ not an AR, but none the less now I know. :ninja:

 

So if anyone has questions about coins slabbed by NGC the records may be available.

Thanks, Maya ... that's good to know! ;)

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