Jump to content
CoinPeople.com

Toned coins: only US coins?


banivechi

Recommended Posts

I wonder how many toned US coins I saw everywhere on net, 100+ years old or newer, but (almost) none from other countries. Toning is an artificial work? Some colours are not "normal" for an european eye...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wonder how many toned US coins I saw everywhere on net, 100+ years old or newer, but (almost) none from other countries. Toning is an artificial work? Some colours are not "normal" for an european eye...

 

 

Very normal colors...

 

clr-1.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This gets into the whole murky area of artificial versus natural toning. Toning is a chemical process and this process can happen the exact same way with the same results naturally or artificially induced. Sulfur+Moisture+Time = Toning. Does it matter that the coin toned due to ten years of neglectful storgae in a moist environment inside a paper ennvelope versus being purposely stored that way?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree Dave, but these full colour spectrum (rainbow toned) coins I've seen only at US UNC silver coins. Looks like the atmosphere in America is very rich in Sulphur...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree Dave, but these full colour spectrum (rainbow toned) coins I've seen only at US UNC silver coins. Looks like the atmosphere in America is very rich in Sulphur...

 

That could very well be a big factor. But I'm guessing our collector base is not only larger but broader. Therefore, we've got a lot of collectors who do not store their coins correctly (I'm definitely one of them). So if many of these collectors have had their treasures out on the desk all summer long or placed in a sulfer-containing paper envelope - even accidentally - then we'll have lots of toned coins.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Regarding to the high prices of toned coins, it seems that the storage in unproper conditions will be a factor for increasing value of the coins. :ninja:

Toned coin = damaged coin or not?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Regarding to the high prices of toned coins, it seems that the storage in unproper conditions will be a factor for increasing value of the coins. :ninja:

Toned coin = damaged coin or not?

 

Whoops. I thought you meant "why are there so many toned coins in the US market?"

 

I guess the appeal of toned coins - and hence the increasing value - is that good, legitamate toning is often a sign that a coin has escaped cleaning. Remember cleaning is a big no-no here. So perhaps people see toning as a guarantee that a coin hasn't been cleaned, the same way a slab guarantees a coin is authentic and of a certain grade.

 

(by the way, many of my points there can be argued but I'm making a broad generalization so I don't feel like debating topics in cleaning, toning, values, slabs, authenticity, and grading)

 

ALSO I'd say that toning makes some series more exciting. Sometimes blast white is just too hard to find and a toned coin is easier to find. Othertimes blast white is boring and toned coins have more exotic eye appeal.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Whoops. I thought you meant "why are there so many toned coins in the US market?"

You got the point.

Around here I bet that nobody will swap with you a shiny white Proof coin for a toned one. They will tell you that it's a damaged surface, wich will became worse in years.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Regarding to the high prices of toned coins, it seems that the storage in unproper conditions will be a factor for increasing value of the coins. :ninja:

Toned coin = damaged coin or not?

 

Were the storage conditions that produced this coin -

 

 

gallery_20_40_34352.jpg

 

 

and less improper than the storage conditions that produced this one ?

 

 

1911_Proof_half_crown_rev.jpg

 

 

Or how about this one -

 

1911_Proof_6_pence.rev.jpg

 

 

All three coins are toned and all three coins are 100% naturally toned. Now you say that your coin is more normal for you. I would agree with that. It is quite common for silver coinage, from any country or in any country, to tone to a nice gun-metal grey.

 

But by the same token it is just as uncommon for silver coinage to tone to vibrant shades of red, blue and green. And because it is so uncommon some collectors are willing to pay more for it. It's really no different than paying more for an uncommon variety or a coin with a low mintage vs one with a high mintage. It has nothing to do with the storage method being improper, it is just that the storage conditions were different.

 

It is also a matter of personal taste. It's just like ice cream. Some folks like plain vanilla and some like chocolate. Well some folks like their coins toned gun-metal grey (common), and some like them colorful (uncommon).

 

As for toning equaling damage - is your coin any less damaged than that half crown I pictured ? Both coins are equally toned, they are just different colors. So no, I don't think either one of them is damaged at all. I think both coins are in their natural state as they are supposed to be.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think there are a couple of factors that definitely contribute to the number of colorfully toned US coins, for Morgan it was long-term storage in government vaults in canvas bags in a more humid environment, this has created a lot of rainbow bag-toned morgans, usually toned only on the side that was in contact with the canvas bag. Second, a lot of toning occurred with the use of Wayte Raymond albums in the early 20th century, the materials that the albums were made from contributed to many album toned coins of smaller denominations.

 

And of course since they are more popular, our capitalistic drive causes many more aggressive free market participants to "create" such coins to meet market demand.

 

Banivechi, the type of toning you consider normal looks more to me like the type of toning more common on circulated coins in the US.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wonder how many toned US coins I saw everywhere on net, 100+ years old or newer, but (almost) none from other countries. Toning is an artificial work? Some colours are not "normal" for an european eye...

 

Seems like I have read a ton about toning on the boards in the last few years. The subject is often and hotly debated by some. Makes me wonder why I want to throw my two cents in, but nevertheless I will.

 

As some have posted there certainly are plenty of toned non-US coins. Even some of the more colorful varieties, like here: link

 

Here is one of my own.

1887l1tonedad9.jpg

 

 

And they don't have to be 210 years old as this example shows.

toned2onza1999rx4.jpg

 

 

But these two examples are consistent with what every chemist that I have talked to has said - that silver tarnishes / tones / oxidizes grey / brown / black. In other words, it is reasonable to call that kind of toning on silver as normal. Similarly, unless there are some extraordinairily pristine storage conditions, an aged silver coin that does not show toning has been cleaned - as in dipped in something to remove tarnish (such as thiourea and sulfuric acid).

 

Then what about all those yellow franklins and blue indians? I am told that there have to be some special chemicals in the environment to achieve that.

 

So, I guess this piece was in contact with a lot of sulfur dioxide in the air (that's believable) and it resulted in an attractive (to me) honey bronze toning.

tonedase2006xa4.jpg

 

But what of the really colorful ones - the neon ones, like that merc in this thread. What, in the environment is causing that and if I create that environment, is it AT? Because I am hearing that it is all natural toning - a natural process regardless of what and how it was set up. Sometimes people say it doesn't matter - they're beautiful and that's all that counts.

 

So these two, which took about 15 min, are natural toning?

1944scentavotonedws8.jpg

 

1975pesewatonedab8.jpg

 

Ok, ok, nobody is going to be fooled by those and, more importantly, nobody is going to want them enough to pay any premium let alone the mega premiums that the neon toners go for. Yes, those wild toners probably are very uncommon and they are very highly valued, which is why they command the premiums they do. But, to me, the wild ones are freakish and I don't desire them to the point of the premium. Further, I get the impression that the popularity of the wild ones is a fairly recent event - maybe 20-30 years. Maybe that popularity is not shared (yet) to the same extent by non-US collectors and that, alone, is why we don't see as many non-US wild-toned coins.

 

I know that preference trumps reason - always. I don't have anything against toned coins, even the wild ones. Nor do I hold people who pay high premiums for such coins in contempt. While I am not much of a toned collector, who knows...maybe I will start a rainbow-toned collection of my own some day.

 

 

 

 

 

 

tonedwasherte5.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have to admit, I am a sucker for toned coins. I will easily pay double if the eye appeal is there.

Coincollecting is a hobby, and hobbies are ment to be fun. And I have lots of fun when I look at these :ninja:

 

I started with collecting only those that fit into my collection, being Belgium since their independance in 1832.

 

5 Francs 1869

 

5fr1869%20-%20patinab.jpg5fr1869%20-%20patinac.jpg

 

1 Franc 1887 - Dutch Legends

 

1fr1887vl%20-%20patinab.jpg1fr1887vl%20-%20patinac.jpg

 

But now, I buy what I like, no matter what country it's from.

 

Switzerland - 1 Franc 1944

 

switzerland1fr1944%20-%20patina%20-%20ba5b_3b.jpgswitzerland1fr1944%20-%20patina%20-%20ba5b_3c.jpg

 

Germany - 1 Mark 1914 A

 

1mark1914%20-%20toned.jpg1mark1914%20-%20toneda.jpg

 

 

Regards,

 

Jos

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks. I have 7 belgians with nice patinas, and I've seen maybe a dozen of them in total.

 

Too bad, because they really make a coin look so much better. The silverpolish-compagnies have good lobbyers, I guess...

 

Jos

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And they don't have to be 210 years old as this example shows.

toned2onza1999rx4.jpg

 

That is a beautiful coin. What is it?

 

P.S. Sorry to split the topic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That is a beautiful coin. What is it?

 

P.S. Sorry to split the topic.

 

That is a Mexican 2-ounce silver Libertad bullion coin. Though that particular one is a bit strange since that reverse was not used until the year 2000, yet this appears to be a 1996 issue which should have the old reverse (the standard eagle with snake design), and yes, technically that is the obverse for a Mexican coin I know! This was also the first year for that obverse.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Me likes toners ... from anywhere :ninja:

 

923160.jpg

917572.jpg

910426.jpg

910337.jpg

905048.jpg

898716.jpg

896674.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...