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How Far Back Can We Go??

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Mary was only 6 days old when her father(James V of Scotland) died & she became Queen. At 5 years old she was sent to France. She married Francis the french Dauphin at aged 15, one year later she became Queen of France when Francis II became king, only to be widowed just over a year later.


Returning to Scotland(a catholic in a protestant country) she eventually married Henry Stuart, Lord Darnley he turned out to have a drinking problem which allied to his mean & violent tendencies & jealousy lead him to butcher to death Mary's private secretary(David Rzzio) in front of Mary who was 7 months pregnant.


Henry(who had alienated most of the Scots nobles) himself was murdered and suspicion centred on the Earl of Bothwell & Mary. The Earl is claimed to have raped & abducted her & forced her to marry him. Mary was imprisoned & made to abdicate. After a failed attempt to regain her throne she fled to England & sought sanctuary from Elizabeth I. Elizabeth refused to met her & she was imprisioned from 1568 until her death in 1587.


It is true that she was involved in plots against Elizabeth but that was after many years of imprisionment and it was obvious that she would never be released. The catholic/protestant problems in Scotland & England were no help to Mary nor her upbringing in France where she was encouraged to claim the English throne.

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Ive read she was implicated in the death of somebody, , she signed the death warrent for Jane Gray , commited treason , various other discrepencies.Hardly the sympathetic figure often portrayed in my opinion.


You are confusing Mary Tudor Queen of England(who did sign the death warrant for Lady Jane Gray) who was half-sister to Elizabeth I, with Mary Stuart Queen of the Scots.


Mary Stuart could not commit treason against Elizabeth, even though that was what she was charged with, found guilty & executed for by the English. You can only commit treason against your own, or adopted, monarch &/or country. Seeing as Mary Stuart was Scottish and just imprisoned in England, it was an absurd charge!


Seeing as she was left fatherless at 6 months

Was sent to France at 5

Married at 15

Widowed at 17

Returned to Scotland as Queen, but being a catholic in a fervent protestant country where sermons were preached against her & she had no real power as the protestant scottish lords were hostile to her.

Where her second husband murdered her friend, fellow catholic, secretary in front of her when she was 7 months pregnant, etc etc

Being imprisoned and suffering a miscarriage of the twins she was expecting, fleeing to England being imprisoned from age 24 until her death 19 years later.

I think she deserves a break.


I hope you read a little more about Mary Stuart & try to put yourself in her shoes.

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Point taken deadpoint,if you like constanius we might continue our discussion in the community forum , nice and peacably of course , im always open to learning.


Kidding! I'm just giving you guys a hard time :ninja:

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Thought i'd bring this coin in at this stage......no, i'm not jumping a few to 1570 (as the actual coin is dated) but making mention of it in relation to 1578, which was the date the `crowned thistle' countermark was added to it (seen to the left of sword hilt). In 1578 the ryals (large silver coins as depicted in the image below) of James VI of Scotland and his mother, Mary Queen of Scots, were all recalled and revalued from their original value of thirty shillings to thirty six shillings and ninepence. The counterstamp was the means of indicating this new value. At that time the value of coinage was directly related to the actual silver content and in 1578 the value of silver had risen significantly enough to warrant the revaluation exercise.



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  • 5 weeks later...
Bump! 1577 anyone??


Yesss, if a coin from that specific year without date is allowed here:




Paris in France, Henri III. (1574-1589), 1577 AD.,

Æ Double Tournois (21 mm / 2,75 g),

Obv.: HENRI • III • R • DE • FRAN • ET • POL • A , buste lauré d'Henri III, lettre d'atelier : A.

Rev.: + DOUBLE • TOURNOIS , trois lis posés 2 et 1.

Ciani 1465 .


Le double tournoi, première monnaie de cuivre, fut créé par ordonnance du 31 mai 1575.

Les double tournois à ce type furent frappés à Paris de 1578 à 1585 et en 1587.Un autre type fut frappé en 1588 et 1589.


Les monnaies de 1577 furent frappés sans date.



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It's amazing to think that we are still moving with this thread after 3 long years! :ninja:


I wonder how many new coins were purchased for this thread?

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For me I picked up the 3 Hungary Denars as a group. But even if we are past the date or not dated I think I may end up getting a few more. Maybe one per ruler. I have one each from King Maximilian II, King Rudolf II, and King Matthias II. Right now I have one left to post 1 DENAR 1569 King Maximilian II Madonna and child.

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Skipping a year...




This half merk represents an issue that was in the earlier debased billon issues that were issued during the 16th century. This coin was issued in 1572 and was worth 6 Shillings, 8 Pence Scots. It was the rough equivalent of 6 1/2 English Pence.

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(by the way, post no. 1000:)




Philip II / Filips II / Felipe II (1555-1581), minted in - geslagen te - ceca de Dordrecht, 1572 AD.,

1/5 Philipsdaalder - 1/5 de Escudo (29-30 mm / 6,42 g),

Obv.: PHS D G HISPZ REX. COES. HOL / 1572 , bust of Philip r., behind, countermark: a lion rampant to left - rodeando busto de monarca a derecha, contrasello leon rampante a izquierda.

Rev.: DOMINVS . MIHI. ADIVTOR , around crowned coat of arms - rodeando escudo de armas coronado.

H. van Gelder & M. Hoc: Les monnaies des Pays-Bas bourguignons et espagnols 1434-1713, 212-11d var. .


Dordrecht, or Dort, a mint of the Counts of Holland in the 13th c., and of the Dukes of Burgundy as Counts of Holland in the 15th.

It was at a later period one of the regular mints for the Dutch Indies, and also struck money for the Batavian Republic (1795-1804): mintmark: a rose.

In 1572, four years into the Dutch Revolt, representatives of all the cities of Holland, with the exception of Amsterdam, as well as the Watergeuzen, represented by William II de la Marck, gathered in Dordrecht to hold the Eerste Vrije Statenvergadering ("First Assembly of the Free States"), also known as the Unie van Dordrecht ("Union of Dordrecht"). This secret meeting, called by the city of Dordrecht, was a very rebellious act since only King Philip II or his stadtholder, at that time the Duke of Alva, were allowed to call a meeting of the states.

During the meeting, the organization and financing of the rebellion against the Spanish occupation was discussed, Phillip II was unanimousley denounced and William of Orange was chosen as the new stadtholder and recognized as the official leader of the revolt. Oranje was promised financial support of his struggle against the Spanish and at his own request, freedom of religion was declared in all of Holland.

The gathering is regarded as the first important step towards the free and independent Dutch Republic. Other gatherings such as the Union of Brussel (1577) and the Union of Utrecht (1579) paved the way to the official independence of the Netherlands, which was declared in the Act of Abjuration in 1581.


The countermarked coins are a symbol and a new value provided some profit used for the following war of independence.

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