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Neat 1758 kopek that went pretty high


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I was also looking on this coin yesterday, and for me it seems to have been overstruck on the identical coin of the foregoing year or to have been double-struck with rotation between cycles.

 

Maybe dear squirrel will explain us why he bought this coin?? :ninja:

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I was also looking on this coin yesterday, and for me it seems to have been overstruck on the identical coin of the foregoing year or to have been double-struck with rotation between cycles.

 

Maybe dear squirrel will explain us why he bought this coin?? :ninja:

 

not very expensive. If that condition was a little better -- it would go for much more.

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Well, it went that high because someone else wanted it too... that simple. ;)

BUT

i get a kick out of those ugly overstucks. This one is definitely overstruck on a swedish 1 ore, 1751-7 clear monogram detail on obv. of Adolf Frederick, and arrow on rev. Brekke supplement */* :ninja:

 

Original Brekke has the Elizabeth 2 kop as overstruck on the 1 ore, but the supplement lists this as a mistake, and actually it is the 1 Kop 1757-59, overstruck on a 1 ore . all are */*

 

;) Ugly coins need love too.

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http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...p;rd=1&rd=1

 

more like this one, with the older monogram.

 

Wow, if it's an overstruck on the Swedish coin, it's not expensive at all :ninja: I suspected that, took Brekke supplement, but unfortunately the monogram side is not depicted there and I have not found any arrows ;)

 

As soon as you get it, please post better images, it would be interesting to discuss overstriking traces on that particular coin. I doubt a bit because traces of the monogram of the Swedish emperor looks also similar to the monogram of Elizabeth I, it would be interesting to compare.

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update: my mistake, swedish 1 ore undercoin is frederick I, 174? not adolf-frederick. Kisinesh: bottom of monogram is at 9 oclock on obverse. I see how it can be interpreted as the elizaveta monogram, which first caught my eye as well.

 

Respect and congratulations! :ninja: I learnt something today ;) waiting for high resolution pictures...

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I can contribute a kopek1757 that I had suspected to be struck over a Swedish ör. I have no records left as to weight, only this picture. I sold it sometime ago. I still wonder if it could have been the thing in question. It had the reticulated kopek edge. Does anyone know what edge the overstrikes have? Sigi

http://www.sigistenz.com/bilder/kop1757.jpg

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update: my mistake, swedish 1 ore undercoin is frederick I, 174? not adolf-frederick. Kisinesh: bottom of monogram is at 9 oclock on obverse. I see how it can be interpreted as the elizaveta monogram, which first caught my eye as well.

 

 

Squirrel (and gx), congratulations on seeing this.

 

I've studied the pictures and I'm still not really sure what I'm looking at.

 

I think I see what looks like the shafts of the crossed arrows on the dated side of the coin, with one arrow shaft running between "17" and "58" and traces of the other at a right angle to it.

 

But I don't see any trace of the arrowheads or feathers of the Swedish coin remaining. On the side with the horseman, I see what looks like part of Elizabeth's (???) monogram, with the bottom at 11 o'clock. But I'm not sure if what I think I see is really there, or whether I'm just imagining it (like looking at a Rorschach inkblot) and describing what I see in it.

 

If you or gx could post a picture highlighting the outlines of the undertype (gx did this with an Anna rouble he has), then that would be very helpful.

 

Thank you! :ninja:

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Grivna - here is a quick sketch that I did with my coin; it's definately incomplete and I spent less than 10 mins on this, which I promise to work on it when I have the time.

 

17571krnegfincomplete1yk.png

 

And if you still have the doubts, this is my original used for that image:

 

17571krotatedf9np.jpg

 

It's inevitable that you can see the huge letter M, which I don't think is used in ANY Russian coinage, which soon led to the conclusion that the original coin must be Swedish. I believe Spassky has mentioned this briefly on his book as well but not in details - will scan that when I have the time.

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Ill post high-res when the coin arrives. and maybe some photoshop fun.

 

check out this 1746 1 ore, http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...p;rd=1&rd=1

 

rotate the Frederick monogram 90 deg. clockwise. now look at the 9 oclock quadrant of the 1 kopeck, to the left of the rider.

 

 

 

 

compare0xb.jpg

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Grivna - here is a quick sketch that I did with my coin; it's definately incomplete and I spent less than 10 mins on this, which I promise to work on it when I have the time.

 

17571krnegfincomplete1yk.png

 

And if you still have the doubts, this is my original used for that image:

 

17571krotatedf9np.jpg

 

It's inevitable that you can see the huge letter M, which I don't think is used in ANY Russian coinage, which soon led to the conclusion that the original coin must be Swedish. I believe Spassky has mentioned this briefly on his book as well but not in details - will scan that when I have the time.

 

 

Thank you, gx, that is very clear. I have no doubt about the fact that it is overstruck. I was just having some trouble sorting out what was remaining of the undertype from the overstrike details and the fact that what is raised up in relief sometimes looks like it's pressed below the surface. Stare at it long enough and your eyes start to play tricks on you and it's hard to tell if what you think you see in the picture is really there or not.

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Ill post high-res when the coin arrives. and maybe some photoshop fun.

 

check out this 1746 1 ore, http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...p;rd=1&rd=1

 

rotate the Frederick monogram 90 deg. clockwise. now look at the 9 oclock quadrant of the 1 kopeck, to the left of the rider.

Possible struck over a 174's Swedish öre.Good Luck.

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  • 2 weeks later...

UPDATE.

The 1758 kopeck is here today, along with a swedish 1 ore 1746 i picked up online.

BIG DIFFERENCE in the weight of these coins. The 1758 overstruck kopeck is 10.095 grams.

I have another, (not overstruck ) 1758 1K, 9.82 grams....

but the 1 ORE 1746 is a whoppin' 14.5 grams.

I have no clue as to the wieght fluctuations of swedish coins for that period.

 

Was there a 1 ore coin, in the 10 gram ballpark, with the crossed arrows and Frederick monogram?

 

The overstruck features are even better in person. I will scan later tonight. The coin is clearly overstruck, squished out to a diameter of 28.2mm. The other 1758 is only 25.5 mm.

 

The diameter of the overstruck 1758 is identical to the 2 examples in the Brekke supplement, p.101

The swedish 1 ore i now have is over 30mm in diameter, so how did any of these overstrikes get to be smaller in diameter :ninja:

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GX, the 1746 1 ore has a netted edge. similar to the russian coin edge, but mutch finer "pitch" ie more cris-crosses, closer together.

 

So i understand, the swedish coins were punched along with the copper planchet stock, to the same diameter as the 1 kopeck blank, then the strike caused the diameter to spread due to the thicker planchet. This way, the weight of the overstruck 1 ore is correct for a 1 kopeck. neat.

 

Were the swedish coins "spoils of war" or an intentional purchase for profiting from the ore/kopeck exchange rate?

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