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Very rare or a fake?


dsearle
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Something looks familiar. I think maybe that separetly these are real designs but they have been muled togteher as a token. But I need to remember a little more

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Something looks familiar. I think maybe that separetly these are real designs but they have been muled togteher as a token. But I need to remember a little more

 

In the absence of dimensions, it's hard to say 100% what it alludes to be but it mimics either the (gold) octodrachm or the (gold) tetradrachm of Euergetes (aka Ptolemy III of Egypt) and his wife. The octodrachm and the tetradrachm are basically the same design, just different sizes.

 

There wasn't a coin of that design in silver for Euergetes (at least not that i'm aware of), so IMHO it can only be a fake.

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Thank you everyone for your help regarding this coin. I just found out some more info. I was told this coin is of Ptolemy III, the Macedonian king of Egypt who ruled c. 241-221 BC. The obverse depicts

his father, Ptolemy II, and his mother, Arsinoe II. The reverse depicts his

grandfather, Ptolemy I, and his grandmother, Berenike I.

 

Does this sound accurate?

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In the absence of dimensions, it's hard to say 100% what it alludes to be but it mimics either the (gold) octodrachm or the (gold) tetradrachm of Euergetes (aka Ptolemy III of Egypt) and his wife. The octodrachm and the tetradrachm are basically the same design, just different sizes.

 

There wasn't a coin of that design in silver for Euergetes (at least not that i'm aware of), so IMHO it can only be a fake.

 

From the picture, it looks like you bought it in Egypt. :ninja:

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Thank you everyone for your help regarding this coin. I just found out some more info. I was told this coin is of Ptolemy III, the Macedonian king of Egypt who ruled c. 241-221 BC. The obverse depicts

his father, Ptolemy II, and his mother, Arsinoe II. The reverse depicts his

grandfather, Ptolemy I, and his grandmother, Berenike I.

 

Does this sound accurate?

 

In a word...no. It portrays Euergetes and his wife obverse, and his father (Ptolemy II) and his wife reverse.

 

Irrespective....on the basis of the images presented it is not a genuine coin.

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...or China? I think the Egyptians would at least have got the colour right :ninja:

 

$2 says that it's not from China. The market for silver dollars (wide appeal to general public) is much greater than that of an ancient that virtually nobody outside of a specific field of numismatics or history would recognize.

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$2 says that it's not from China. The market for silver dollars (wide appeal to general public) is much greater than that of an ancient that virtually nobody outside of a specific field of numismatics or history would recognize.

 

I was joking about China. However, given time you can fully expect to see copper nickel Ptolemy III octodrachms being marketed from sellers in China claiming that they had been in the family for centuries. Of course these ones will be the extremely rare variety sporting the date `circa 230BC' in the exergue. :ninja:

 

PS I still think the Egyptians would have got the colour right. I've seen an Egyptian fake octodrachm and it at least looked like it was made of gold.

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According to Sear it's a coin of Ptolemy III that portrays Ptolemy II and Arsinoe II and Ptolemy I and Berenike I. Say, Ian, I'll bet you the cost of a real one that this copy came from Egypt.

 

 

I didn't bother to consult Sear for this one. I just reached for my much loved and nearer to hand Anthony `Collecting Greek Coins' who obviously (rightly or wrongly) thinks otherwise. ;)

 

I've since checked Sear out and you are right in what you say. Both the octo and tet are right there as 7789/ 7790, along with a nice little story of Euergetes invading the Seleuchid kingdom etcetera...... I'll happily leave Sear and Anthony to fight it out between them as to who got it right or otherwise, although I think that Sear would (probably) win.

 

As to the origins of the fake, I won't take up your wager Reid. I just don't know where that one came from. All that I know for sure is that it ain't genuine. Beyond that the remaining factors pale into insignificance. The manufacturer might even have been wearing his birthday-best Fez at the time too. :ninja:

 

Someone on r.c.c. posted links to fake Egyptian gold coins (including the octo and tets of PtIII) a year or so ago. Damned if i can remember who it was though. I remember taking copies of the images but (situation normal) now that i want to look at them again I just can't find 'em. I'm hoping that i'll be able to find the post / links though.

 

I saw a display of the real McCoy up close though when visiting the British Museum back in November 2003. I have some photos but they aren't particularly good (read `lousy') through the cabinet glass. While I stood there drooling, nose right up to the glass, my good lady was hovering impatiently in the background totally unimpressed and muttering something about there being more to life than coins. I live in hope that she'll come to her senses one day.

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I didn't bother to consult Sear for this one. I just reached for my much loved and nearer to hand `Anthony' who obviously (rightly or wrongly) thinks otherwise. :-)

 

I've since checked Sear out and you are right in what you say. Both the octo and tet are right there as 7789/ 7790, along with a nice little story of Euergetes invading the Seleuchid kingdom etcetera...... I'll happily leave Sear and Anthony to fight it out between them as to who got it right or otherwise, although I think that Sear would (probably) win.

 

As to the origins of the fake, I won't take up your wager Reid. I just don't know where that one came from. All that I know for sure is that it ain't genuine. Beyond that the remaining factors pale into insignificance. The manufacturer might have been wearing his birthday best Fez at the time too. ;-)

 

Someone on r.c.c. posted links to fake Egyptian gold coins (including the octo and tets of PtIII) a year or so ago. Damned if i can remember who it was though. I remember taking copies of the images but (situation normal) now that i want to look at them again I just can't find 'em. I'm hoping that i'll be able to find the post / links though.

 

I saw a display of the real McCoy up close though when visiting the British Museum back in November 2003. I have some photos but they aren't particularly good (read `lousy') through the cabinet glass. While I stood there drooling, nose right up to the glass, my good lady was hovering impatiently in the background totally unimpressed and muttering something about there being more to life than coins. I live in hope that she'll come to her senses one day.

 

There's a couple of the real octodrachms in the new Triton catalog. I've also posted some fakes in real gold last year, those came from an old dealer in Greece and then were subsequently sold to a prominent auction company. I can repost the pictures here.

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There's a couple of the real octodrachms in the new Triton catalog. I've also posted some fakes in real gold last year, those came from an old dealer in Greece and then were subsequently sold to a prominent auction company. I can repost the pictures here.

 

I'm pretty sure it was your post I was thinking about given that it was your name I had associated with it..... but memory is such a fickle thing! ;)

 

I think it would be good if you posted them here just so everyone can see what i've been wittering on about. Besides, it would also give me a chance to get hold of copies again. :ninja:

 

Ian

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