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1839 Borodino, rouble


DAJ

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Julian, I am quite quite puzzled over the history of the Borodin ruble and would like to ask for clarfication since I am not able to get hold of much decent Russian numismatic materials around my area or over the net or perhaps not clever enough to look for a few. Do rectify any errors if I do make any.

 

While I understand that the original mintage of these Borodin rubles are supposely 140,000 which is a huge number compared to the previous Column ruble, a pitiful 15,000. This is supposed to be minted for the soldiers who fought in the Borodin battle and this is the particular coin together with it's 1.5 ruble counterpart as a solder's payment. Unfortunately most of the soldiers were paid in terms of a normal ruble and hence the mintage of such huge number were "wasted".

 

One of my question is this. While a huge amount of them were minted, some of them were eventually "sold" to the public at a norminal amount to those who were interested in. Because these rubles were so unpopular, an order was placed to melt most of the 1.5 rubles and leave 10,000 of 1 ruble denomination each at Moscow and St. Petersburg. Are the orders for only 20,000 to be left in existance or an extra 20,000 to be sold in the future? (I don't know how book keepings of commemorative coins were kept)

 

Another mystery is, supposely if some managed to get sold, what is left is probably 20,000+(sold) rubles + almost null (and some that managed to escape) 1.5 rubles. If there are two known varities of the 1.5 rubles and these are almost scarce, as the original mintage is a scarce 6000, how can there not be any variety of the 1 ruble for an original mintage of 140,000?

 

As well as, why would the Borodin ruble be scarcer than the Column ruble when the supposely mintage is actually higher than the Column ruble? I believe BKB has discussed a similar thread somewhere in this forum. What is more interesting is that I do see many more damaged Borodin ruble but I cannot tell if these are intentionally damaged so that to hide from the fact that it may be a counterfeit.

 

I do appericiate your time on answering my questions - they have been very helpful in clearing many of my mysteries. Thank you.

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Julian, I am quite quite puzzled over the history of the Borodin ruble and would like to ask for clarfication since I am not able to get hold of much decent Russian numismatic materials around my area or over the net or perhaps not clever enough to look for a few. Do rectify any errors if I do make any.

While I understand that the original mintage of these Borodin rubles are supposely 140,000 which is a huge number compared to the previous Column ruble, a pitiful 15,000. This is supposed to be minted for the soldiers who fought in the Borodin battle and this is the particular coin together with it's 1.5 ruble counterpart as a solder's payment. Unfortunately most of the soldiers were paid in terms of a normal ruble and hence the mintage of such huge number were "wasted".

One of my question is this. While a huge amount of them were minted, some of them were eventually "sold" to the public at a norminal amount to those who were interested in. Because these rubles were so unpopular, an order was placed to melt most of the 1.5 rubles and leave 10,000 of 1 ruble denomination each at Moscow and St. Petersburg. Are the orders for only 20,000 to be left in existance or an extra 20,000 to be sold in the future? (I don't know how book keepings of commemorative coins were kept)

Another mystery is, supposely if some managed to get sold, what is left is probably 20,000+(sold) rubles + almost null (and some that managed to escape) 1.5 rubles. If there are two known varities of the 1.5 rubles and these are almost scarce, as the original mintage is a scarce 6000, how can there not be any variety of the 1 ruble for an original mintage of 140,000?

As well as, why would the Borodin ruble be scarcer than the Column ruble when the supposely mintage is actually higher than the Column ruble? I believe BKB has discussed a similar thread somewhere in this forum. What is more interesting is that I do see many more damaged Borodin ruble but I cannot tell if these are intentionally damaged so that to hide from the fact that it may be a counterfeit.

I do appericiate your time on answering my questions - they have been very helpful in clearing many of my mysteries. Thank you.

The question of how many Borodino coins survived the melting is not quite clear from the documents although it is quite clear that most were later melted. Severin‘s interpretation of the documents says that 146,000 pieces were melted from the total mintage of 166,000 for both denominations. Judging by the well-known rarity of the 1 1/2 roubles, it is my view that all but 1,000 or 1,500 of these were melted. This would leave roughly 140,000+ roubles that were melted, leaving about 20,000 Borodino roubles to survive, which is the figure used by Uzdenikov.

 

It seems likely that some of the roubles were distributed to veterans of the war, which would account for more of them showing up in worn condition as compared to the 1834 Column rouble.

 

It also should be noted that the official mintage figures do not include proof specimens for collectors.

 

There are varieties for the 1839 rouble but differences between the dies are very slight.

 

RWJ

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According to letter of General-major Ellers (head of St. Petersburg mint) dated December 25, 1838 only 20 Pieces (10 pieces of 1 1/2 Rubles and 10 pieces of 1 Ruble coins) were struck in December of 1838 and were due to be delivered to His Majesty. Assumption is that only those 20 pieces were struck in 1838, and the rest of mintage was struck at later time.

 

In January 1839 Ministry of War (Count Chernishov) answered that His Majesty expects these medallic Rubles to be given out to every member of troops that will be present at the time of opening of the monument at Borodino field. And therefore Ministry of Finances calculated mintage figures of 160,000 pieces for 1 Ruble and 6,000 pieces for 1 1/2 Ruble coins and orders to St. Petersburg mint mintage of the named quantities. This order to St. Petersburg mint is dated January 28, 1839 and it is quite obvious that the mint could not make quantities of coins before that date (except those 20 coins for His Majesty in December of 1838).

 

Complete mintage figures for Borodino coins would be 160,010 pieces for 1 Ruble and 6,010 for 1 1/2 Rubles.

 

In May 4, 1840 Count Kankrin (Minister of Finances at that time) wrote to the department of "Gornih & Solianih Del" that Ministry of War given out awards to troops at Borodino field in small silver coins and therefore 166,000 coins (i.e. looks for me as the entire mintage figures less 20 pieces for His Majesty) of Borodino coins are kept in Moscow unused. Kankrin ordered that 10,000 only of 1 Ruble coins to be left in Moscow for circulation and the rest to be sent back to the mint. After receiving by mint 156,000 of 1 and 1 1/2 Rubles 10,000 of them to be used for those who are interested and the rest 146,000 to melt down.

 

Out of 166,020 pieces of mintage figures together for 1 and 1 1/2 Rubles 146,000 were melted down. The survived part of mintage is 20,020 pieces together for 1 and 1 1/2 Rubles, most of them are 1 Ruble coins. Seems that public was able to get some pieces of Borodino Rubles only after May-June of 1840.

 

WCO

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