squirrel Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Ive had this in my collection for 12 years, and now suspect its authenticity. Any help would be appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted November 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 reverse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted November 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 edge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roaddevil Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 well u can hold the coin verticly on the observe with ur thumb and index finger slowly spin it if the reverse of the coin is not on 12 oclock or 6 oclock but on left or right or any other direction then its a fake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roaddevil Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 u can also see if the letters are in proportional size(same size continuing around the coin in a straight line) if not its a fake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted November 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 weight is 428 grains, converted to grams is 27.73 is this typical? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCO Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Squirrel, 1. While it is possible in some cases to make conclusions on authenticity of a coin by looking at its pictures (when fake is crude and easily resognizable) in many cases it is not just possible. 2. I suggest you send the coin to a grading service (ANACS preferably) and this way you will find out for sure if your piece is authentic or not. You will also have third party opinion that you may use as a reference to request a refund from the seller (if the coin found not authentic) or will have a piece on mind (if found to be authentic). WCO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted November 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Thank you WCO. That is a good idea, and that is why i will not mention the name of the dealer, as he is someone you all undoubtedly know, and if my coin is (I hope!) genuine, i would NOT want to cause a problem for him! The purpose of this post is to see if anyone has seen this exact die set, if it exists, or can point to a specific obvious flaw that would indicate suspicion. Thanks. Squirrel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCO Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Thank you WCO. That is a good idea, and that is why i will not mention the name of the dealer, as he is someone you all undoubtedly know, and if my coin is (I hope!) genuine, i would NOT want to cause a problem for him! The purpose of this post is to see if anyone has seen this exact die set, if it exists, or can point to a specific obvious flaw that would indicate suspicion. Thanks. Squirrel While I do not want to give out any verdict about your coin, I can say that authentic coin with similar design is listed in catalogues. Once you do the grading please tell the community what they found. WCO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted November 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 I will do that. is it possible to post an illustration of the reference you have? also, being new here, how do i post an image bigger than 100k? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gxseries Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 You might want to open a free account at http://www.imageshack.us and you should be able to upload images up to 1mb, which is sufficient I hope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgorS Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 I think your coin is OK. It is a known type. Here is one just like it. What is it you do not like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgorS Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 I think it is Diakov 16, Bitkin 330, Uzdenikov 588, Severin 475A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCO Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 I think your coin is OK.It is a known type. Here is one just like it. What is it you do not like? He did not like that 3 people in another thread (http://www.coinpeople.com/index.php?showtopic=12369) said that this coin is a fake. WCO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted November 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Thank you IgorS. I can sleep better tonight. see thread refered above as to my concern. Yours is the first time ive seen the same variety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timofei Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 I suggest you send the coin to a grading service (ANACS preferably) Why ANACS is preferred? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCO Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Why ANACS is preferred? ANACS does grading differently than NGC or PCGS. Looks as this coin have some problems, like incrustation on obverse, minor laminations and lifeless "washed out" fields that may be as such due to old cleaning/polishing. In this case if coin sent to NGC or PCGS it may be returned back without slab and WITHOUT AUTHENTICITY CHECK since it would not be slabbed anyway. The problem mentioned will be "cleaning" or "corrosion". It will be unknown if the coin is authentic or not. For definetely authentic coins NGC puts a blue label along with "no grading" verdict that "this coin may be encapsulated by NCS as genuine". But they in many cases does not provide this label for coins that require expert opinion and/or tests performed to reach a verdict (like all platinum, rare Russian early coinage, etc.). ANACS will slab this coin anyway just will note problems on the holder. The only thing that may prevent slabbing is non authenticity verdict for the coin. So ANACS does authenticity check in any case unlike NGC or PCGS. This is why I suggested to send this particular coin (and any other coins that may have problems but need authenticity check) to ANACS rather than NGC or PCGS. WCO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gxseries Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 WCO might have a point. The patina is very questionable, which made me raise alarms, probably in a wrong direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timofei Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 ANACS does authenticity check in any case unlike NGC or PCGS. Clear enough, thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roaddevil Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 well since there is no coin authintication service here in bahrain a.k.a nowhere i use simple primitive coin authintication methods which i learned from watching experts grade coins (my granpa a devoted coin collecter but my granma sold his collection after he passed away (may he rest in peace) i will make a new topic on how to authinticate coins your self. i will post the link may be u guys can get a few tips and also give me tips. The authinticating methods i post are the same methods most pro coin graders use.simple and easy to do hope u like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyal Citizen Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Clear enough, thanks! WCO's reason is not exactly correct. If a coin is sent to NCS (Numismatic Conservation Services) it will ALWAYS go through the authentication process. If it is genuine, it will be slabbed by NGC , if not - by NCS. So, in this case it (NCS/NGC) is much better than ANACS since: 1) NCS can also provide conservation per your request that I did find very useful. 2) You can actually get NGC slab instead of lousy ANACS Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roaddevil Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 here is the link i promised http://www.coinpeople.com/index.php?showtopic=12398 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCO Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 WCO's reason is not exactly correct. If a coin is sent to NCS (Numismatic Conservation Services) it will ALWAYS go through the authentication process. If it is genuine, it will be slabbed by NGC , if not - by NCS. So, in this case it (NCS/NGC) is much better than ANACS since: 1) NCS can also provide conservation per your request that I did find very useful. 2) You can actually get NGC slab instead of lousy ANACS Thanks. Loyal Citizen, unfortunately you are wrong in your statements. If the coin will be found non authentic it will neither be slabbed by NGC nor by NCS. Besides what is the point to send for CONSERVATION a coin if you want only AUTHENTICATE it. NCS will charge 1% for evaluation plus 3 % for conservation, cost of grading will be in addition to that. You are right that if coin is sent to NCS it will go through authenticity check anyway, but doing it this way is about the same as to scratch your left ear with your right arm. Besides you are saying ANACS slab is a "lousy" comparable to NGC slab. But this is wrong comparison too. Try to compare ANACS slab to NCS slab (which will be most likely for this coin if authentic). Which one is "lousy" and which one you'd rather prefer? WCO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyal Citizen Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 You are wrong my friend. If the coin will be found non authentic it will neither be slabbed by NGC nor by NCS. Besides what is the point to send for CONSERVATION a coin if you want only authenticate it. NCS will charge 1% for evaluation plus 3 % for conservation, cost of grading will be in addition to that. You are right that if coin is sent to NCS it will go through authenticity check anyway, but do it this way is about the same as to scratch your left ear with your right arm. Besides you are saying ANACS slab is a "lousy" comparable to NGC slab. But this is wrong comparison too. Try to compare ANACS slab to NCS slab (which will be most likely for this coin if authentic). Which one is "lousy" and which one you'd rather prefer? WCO WCO, you just got it wrong: 1. I've never said that NCS (or NGC) will slab a fake coin. What I have said was that ANACS is not the only choice to have a coin in quetion (in this case 1 rouble 1720) authenticated - please read thoroughly what I have posted. 2. If you take two problem but authentic coins in ANACS-problem and NCS holders I'd personally prefer NCS...but this , of course, depends on your taste level. Best regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyal Citizen Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Loyal Citizen, unfortunately you are wrong in your statements. If the coin will be found non authentic it will neither be slabbed by NGC nor by NCS. Besides what is the point to send for CONSERVATION a coin if you want only AUTHENTICATE it. NCS will charge 1% for evaluation plus 3 % for conservation, cost of grading will be in addition to that. You are right that if coin is sent to NCS it will go through authenticity check anyway, but doing it this way is about the same as to scratch your left ear with your right arm. Besides you are saying ANACS slab is a "lousy" comparable to NGC slab. But this is wrong comparison too. Try to compare ANACS slab to NCS slab (which will be most likely for this coin if authentic). Which one is "lousy" and which one you'd rather prefer? WCO Thanks for correcting the first line of your reply - it was not "extremely" polite. I'm really happy that you've realized that BEFORE you were told. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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